Civilian?

[Pete1977]

an old article on Dennis Martin's site...the Civilian stuff is halfway down the page. Pretty interesting and informative read.

http://www.cqbservices.com/?page_id=65

according to Sal and copied from Dennis Martin's site above:

The Civilian was designed after a long conversation with several DEA officers at a Show. The scenario was explained this way; “We have an officer working undercover in a Crack house. He can’t carry a piece. He has no Martial combat skill. Please create a low profile defensive knife that he can use, if discovered, to get out of there alive.

Copied from a post on another self defense forum-

A cop ex-girlfriend of mine carries a Matriarch as a back-up to her back-up. She has little knife training, doesn't want to bother with it, but she practices deploying that knife regularly.

Her plan, since almost all bad guys are guys, and taller than her, is to go low, hook em in the taint, and rip up and forward.

Yes, seriously.

from the same site... Sal is Sal Glesser:

In South Africa, the women were taught to drop down and slash behind the knee, then run.

sal

That is reminiscent of the Clipit self defense classes with the Delica...either Erik Remmen or Michael DeBethencourt...I can't remember.

At the very least, get the Keating DVD if you are going to carry the Civilian. While it was designed with the untrained in mind for a "slash and dash" knife, it's more effective with training. My only issue is that there is no dedicated trainer to practice access, deployment and opening. And they are too expensive IMO to buy a second one and grind the blade down. Personally, I would get a Matriarch and pick up an old beat up endura off ebay and grind it blunt as a trainer. The handle of the Matriarch is the same as the endura, and my guess is the hole is similarly situated that a blunt endura could pass for a suitable Matriarch trainer.

 

[Irminsul]

Very instructive post Pete. The unskilled who receive that knife should then train and practice with it. And the Keating video is a great place to start.

 

[stabman]

One automatically falls back on training and practice in times of stress.

If you think that, you have not been "in times of stress."
All those martial arts guys in the 70's reverted to punching in full-contact kick-boxing at first, regardless of training in kicks. They had to institute a requisite number of kicks per round due to this fact.

Many people who have trained in various arts for many years forget everything other than their dominant hand when in real situations, at least for the first times they encounter such.

Just saying.

 

[Irminsul]

If you think that, you have not been "in times of stress."....
Just saying.

I have. Good training involves learning to channel the adrenalin surge. The pumped adrenalin did get me, but after the action. Part of action stress management and control. It works. It saved my life. Just saying.

 

[stabman]

I have. Good training involves learning to channel the adrenalin surge. The pumped adrenalin did get me, but after the action. Part of action stress management and control. It works. It saved my life. Just saying.

Glad it worked out for you.
It usually doesn't for most folks the first time around.

 

[pwet]

what stabman said ... i've seen once a guy with a serious practical martial arts training loose completely all his energy because of adrenalin and nerves. this guy was a killer at work where he was focused on his job (night club security) he got threatened once with his wife and kid, off work and the fear for their lives, surprise etc made him completely unable to react. btw he had to folow a therapy after that, not because of the event but because of his own reaction ...

if it worked for you that's fine, it won't for everyone, especially for the average guy who practised 1yr and think he is "trained" at whatever martial arts.

 

[Irminsul]

You're right it doesn't work for everyone. Even with the right training, which does help, there are those who will always vapor-lock or panic under the sudden stress of violence and adrenalin surge. That works both ways. When it happened to me (and it happened more than once in different places in which I was stationed in the 1980s) I felt a bit like Michael Corleone flicking the Ronson lighter at the steps of the hospital, feeling surprised that his own hand did not tremble like that of Enzo the baker. You really don't know until you get there. The only real chance, and it is a chance at best, is good training.

 

[pwet]

again it's not about adrenaline nor stress of violence, this guy was working in a night club in one of the hottest places here, fought men with knives, heard bullets flying etc, never failed like that ... it's about probably mindset, fear for his family, don't know ... i'm just a cook

 

[KNaB]

I'm interested to learn more about this. Can you share more info on why this is so? I'm a lefty and wish these had clips for us. Thanks.

I was thinking that due to it being a fully serrated blade, the side that spyderco grinds their serrations may be more favorable to the motions of a lefty. Just a guess?

 

[Irminsul]

again it's not about adrenaline nor stress of violence, this guy was working in a night club in one of the hottest places here, fought men with knives, heard bullets flying etc, never failed like that ... it's about probably mindset, fear for his family, don't know ... i'm just a cook

That's ok. Enzo was a baker. BTW, the specific incident I was referring to happened about a block outside a restaurant I had just left. I could as easily have been the cook there, just leaving work. And you're right about mindset. That's one of the reasons training is important. But I guess one never knows for sure until it happens. But back on topic, the best initial reason to get Civilian training is that, as Sal G. himself and others have noted, it's a knife that likes to bite the initiated, and not in a nice way.