CKF Sukhoi pivot (unscrewing it) question...

Scrim

Scrim

Joined
Sep 26, 2014
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Anyone have any ideas on how to hold the non-torx side of the pivot motionless...so the torx side can be unscrewed for knife disassembly & pivot/bearings clean-out & re-lube? Both sides of the pivot appear VERY securely "lock-tited" together. When I turn the torx side of the pivot, the other side just turns in sync. Nothing on the opposite side of the pivot to grab on to...to keep it from turning, to break the locktite hold. Obviously no one wants to cosmetically screw up their knife's pivot in the process. Am I missing something obvious or is this an impossible task to accomplish? Can't be impossible! Can it? :cool:
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What would I do as a quick solution? Open the blade, place my index finger on the side of the blade, my middle finger on the handle and my thumb on the pivot pushing up on it like you would the middle of a pencil you were trying to snap. Between my thumb and the pivot I'd use something soft and tacky, like a rubber eraser. This should add enough friction to the other side to prevent it from spinning while also not marring it in any way.

Be super careful if you try it since you'll have a finger perched on the blade.
 
If you have an angled driver you can do the same thing in a bench vise using some wood blocks as standoff. Would be safer. Or drill an access hole in one side of the vise to put the driver shaft through.
 
ATwistedStaple- Thanks, and a good idea, which I had tried. Not even close to enough friction possible that way to grab/hold/stop the non-torx side of the pivot-to keep it from rotating along with the torx side. These things are GLUED together by the manufacturer. It's almost like I have to tap a torx hole or gouge a trough into it for a flat head screwdriver to fit into, to get enough grip to separate both sides of the damn pivot screw. It's making me nuts!! It should be so simple but it's as if the two sides of the pivot screws are welded together inside the damn knife. I've had knives with tough loctite before, but they had a way to secure some tool to backside-pivot-screw so you could apply enough force to break the locket hold and unscrew the pivot. Not here. Good thing it's a cool knife. Because not being able to disassemble it, just to clean out the pivot to get out the black gunk the Chinese manufacturers leave in these pivots...So I can make the action much smoother, is nuts! But your concepts are much appreciated.

If anyone else has any other ideas...I'm all ears.
 
Try an adjustable wrench. Adjust it to the correct span and fit it into the reliefs of the pivot. Refer to my picture...

I'm using a wall plug as the "wrench" (since I don't have one near by) and a ZT pivot since its kind of similar. I think the pic should give you an idea of what I'm talking about. You might get scratches, but you can try covering it with a napkin or something.

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Blues Bender - another great concept...tried it...quick pics attached to try to illustrate the problem....there's really nothing to grab onto on the reverse pivot screw...it is practically flat...as hard as I could press my locking needle nose pliers against the lower or depressed areas on back side pivot (covered with microfiber cloth to prevent scratching)...and turning that T10 torx on the opposite side, not enough depth to come close to being able to grab or stop the (back side) pivot from turning along with torx side. ARRRRRGH!!!!!! Also, much appreciated though.

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Still seeking a solution!
 
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Heat up the pivot in a hot water, and clutch the blade, in closed postion in the hand, as much as possible.
 
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get a cheap watch case back tool. They are an adustable wrench that unscrews the case back of a watch to change the battery. Many of them have enough range of motion and interchangeable bits that it will adapt to most knife pivots that have something to grip to.

An even cheaper alternative (and incredibly more fun) that I swear works as I do it all the time with knives that have proprietary hardware is to make a tool from an old thick plastic coat hanger or any piece of hard plastic roughly the same size of the pivot. All you do is cut a portion of the hanger out. It helps if you make it with a curved end so the corner of a hanger works best. Burn the end of the hanger until its melting and dripping fireballs. blow it out and press it over your pivot. Now I have never had it stick but if you are worried about it you can either make a mold of your pivot which is a longer process or you can use some pliable material between the melted plastic and the pivot. Even a little oil on the pivot will prevent sticking. Once you have the end of your tool molded to the pivot and you are satisfied with it (you may have to repeat the process a second time to make a positive mold) just let it reharden. If you feel the plastic is a bit too soft you can toss the tool in the freezer for 5 minutes to get it extra rigid before attempting to use it. If the tool wears out remold it.
 
Heat the pivot screw to soften the loctite (I use my Bic) and use an impact. A lot of car parts stores around here will let you rent an electric one cheap.
 
DO NOT USE AN IMPACT WRENCH ON A KNIFE. I cant stress this enough. And using a bic lighter around carbon fiber can yield equally disappointing results. If you are going to heat the screw to loosen loctite then do it the right way and either put the entire knife in and oven at 200 degrees for 10 minutes or use a 25-30 watt soldering iron. The soldering iron works best. Using an impact wrench on a knife is a sure fire way to strip your pivot. And if you loosen the loctite with the soldering iron you dont need the excessive torque of an impact.
 
Very creative stuff. I think I'll try heating the knife in the oven to 200 for 10...maybe 180 for 15. Seems like it may be tough to hold/immobilize the backside pivot screw at these temps...but I guess I'll find out. That one seems like the experiment with the smallest chance of messing up the knife aesthetically or functionally. Got a project now for this long holiday weekend! (And I was just planning on mastering my new Lansky Diamond Deluxe sharpening system, Ha!) - Can you imagine my kitchen? My kids will come in, sniff, and ask if daddy is making cookies. How disappointed will they be when I say, "Sorry kids. Daddy is just heating up his Sukhoi." Will report next week on any progress made (or not). If the warm Loc-tite doesn't let go, then the watch case-back tool sounds like the next logical attempt...or I go and buy a soldering iron. Thanks guys. Sincerely appreciate the potential solutions. Wish me luck...I'm goin' in.
 
Got it! Found a new way...the only way I could get this knife pivot apart. If anyone cares to know more, post something here. If there's interest, I'll write it all out. If not, I won't bother. --But thanks for the suggestions guys.-- I tried a few. Couldnt immobilize the backside pivot, even when knife/pivot was heated...so I thought I'd try one last idea I had. That was the ticket! Here's a pic so you can see the inner workings of the Sukhoi. It was gunked up in there as I suspected it would be, Chinese, black & gritty axle grease and all (and this knife is new and uncarried). The pic is after complete disassembly and cleaning...and adding some clean new lube..but before final cleaning, removing excesses & reassembling.



 
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Scrim said:
Got it! Found a new way...the only way I could get this knife pivot apart. If anyone cares to know more, post something here. If there's interest I'll write it all out. If not, I won't bother. --But thanks for the suggestions guys.-- I tried a few. Couldnt immobilize the backside pivot, even when knife/pivot was heated...so I thought I'd try one last idea I had. That was the ticket! Here's a pic so you can see the inner workings of the Sukhoi. It was gunked up in there as I suspected it would be, Chinese, black & gritty axle grease and all (and this knife is new and uncarried). The pic is after complete disassembly and cleaning...and adding some clean new lube..but before final cleaning, removing excesses & reassembling. That "action" was ok before. I knew there must be some way to improve it. Now...it's as smooth as any of my SRBS, MRBS Shiros or Thorburns. I have a new understanding...and I guess a new love...for the Suhkoi...after finally getting in there to see what was really going on. It was an interesting afternoon.

Click to expand...

I too have found it beneficial to clean out the grease that comes in most Chinese made knives as well. Whatever it is, it sure isn't specifically for knives. I have a Kevin John knife (who presumably also do the OEM manufacturing for CKF) with the same MRBS system and boy is it smooth.
 
Misanthropia -- Agreed, I have some fantastic Chinese knives as well, some clones, some original designs. I have learned a lot by taking them down, tuning pivots, cleaning, lubing, overall adjustment (and improvement) of their action...all things I did here with my Sukhoi. I only had the nerve to try it because I had experimented so much on many of my Chinese knives. And yes, many of them ARE great. I feel a little guilty saying it but its true.

Misanthropia said:
I too have found it beneficial to clean out the grease that comes in most Chinese made knives as well. Whatever it is, it sure isn't specifically for knives. I have a Kevin John knife (who presumably also do the OEM manufacturing for CKF) with the same MRBS system and boy is it smooth.
Click to expand...
 
SCRIM, please do share your final solution for separating the pivot retainer/screw.

Not only do I have a Sukhoi 2.0 BW on the way to me (which I must clean), it seems that you invented a solution not mentioned in any of the suggestions. You broke new ground!

Also, thanks for the videos on Sukhoi and Decepticon.
 
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Yea Scrim.. post up your method.. Would be good to learn a new rick or 2.. :)
I open up my knives all the time too

Its a hit and miss with these knives generally.. I played with a Sukhoi and its really one of the smoothest thing out there...beats many 1-2K knives that passed thru my hands... But another, the Elf-- was total disappointment..
Oh that "black dirty grease"-- quite likely to be graphite which ironically is to make things more buttery smooth.. but yea I never like the looks of it.. prefer my own blends of lube depending on how I like the action of a particular knife to be.
 
Ok, first, I don't recommend that anyone do what I did. I was determined to find a solution, even at the cost of (possibly) damaging my knife (a little). Thankfully this worked out beautifully...no damage...vast improvement on knife's action.

Here's the abbreviated versions because I hate to type out novels.

1) I had my trusty bottle of Goof Off solvent ready to go.
2) I heated the pivot with a hair dryer at close range, set on high. It got the knife surprisingly hot within about 30 seconds.
3) picked up knife in a small hand towel as it was HOT...positioned it with backside/female side of pivot facing up
4) applied a TINY DOT of Krazy Glue to edge of backside pivot screw and affix it to carbon fiber scale with said dot of glue
5) waited 15 seconds for it to set (but pivot to remain hot)
6) flipped knife over, inserted torx driver & prayed
7) push torx bit in deep and turned it hard (but controlled)
8) pivot screws released from each other!!!
9) quickly began the process of using Goof Off on a paper towel to dissolve/remove dot of Krazy Glue as much as possible before complete disassembly and the COMPLETE removal of any remaining bit of any remnants of Krazy Glue on the Carbon Fiber & edge of back pivot screw (female side)
10) NO damage to carbon fiber or pivot screw
11) This Krazy© process allowed me to hold the backside screw in place securely enough to separate the two halves of the heavily (Loc-tied together...or whatever the Chinese or Russians use) pivot screw, male from female.
12) Immediately drank one shot of Patron Silver to calm down and celebrate my success and lack of any damage to the knife.
13) Cleaned out, Nano oiled relevant areas, greatly improved the action of this MRBS knife.
14) Reassembled meticulously. Flipped, Flipped, Flipped!
15) Moved on with life with great sense of satisfaction and accomplishment

Good luck to anyone who decides to undertake this potentially risky method. It worked for me. It was the only method that worked, of all I tried.

If you do it, let us know how it went for you...via this thread.:cool:
 
Congratulations, and thank you for posting, Scrim?

I am certain that your idea will be cloned by many knifeowners with frozen pivots.

Also glad to hear that alcoholic beverages were an integral part of the process! However, surprised that it was only one of the steps.
 
I have always thought of using super glue to hold pivots in place in a situation like that, I'm glad someone finally tried it :D Great job dude!:thumbup:
 
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