Class III licenses?

AmadeusM

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I was watching a movie the other day called Tears of the Sun, and I was quite impressed with the looks of the Heckler and Koch pistol with a sound supressor unit attached. I was kinda thinking how cool it would be to take something like that to the range and shoot it and impress chicks.

If I understand correctly, a "class III" license would be necessary to have one of those items.

What is the application process for such a license and who is eligible? Are there any special requirements that go beyond the normal ones of a clean record?

Thanks again.
 
Class III refers to the license (Class III SOT) one needs to deal in NFA weapons, not own them.

MN, if that is your state of residence, does not allow it's "citizens" to own suppressed weapons. Case (unfortunately) closed.

Basically, as far as Federal regulations, if you can legally own a firearm you can own a suppressed firearm. The process takes about three months.
 
JB in SC said:
MN, if that is your state of residence, does not allow it's "citizens" to own suppressed weapons. Case (unfortunately) closed.


Interesting. I live in Iowa now. Do you have a state by state listing of applicable laws?

Thanks.
 
First, suppressors are less impressive in person than in the movies. I always laugh when the assassin shoots his target while he's asleep in bed without waking the lady sleeping next to him. No. Suppressors aren't that good.

I haven't seen the movie in question, but I can guess that the gun was a USP Tactical. I can tell you exactly what the process for lawfully owning that gun and suppressor is.

First, you must live in a Class III state. Oregon is. As far as I know, Iowa is not. Sorry.

Next, realize that a Class III "license" does not apply to a person but to a weapon owned by a person. If the suppressor can be detached from the gun, then you are actually talking about two Class III weapons, a gun with a threaded barrrel to accept a silencer, and the actual silencer. So, you'll actually need two Class III "licenses." So, you'll be going through the process twice in parallel.

When you buy the weapon, weapons in this case, you will be disappointed because while you will fork over your money (about $1500 total in this case), the dealer will not hand you your new toys. Instead, the dealer will give you a pair of BATF Form 4 forms for each weapon. He will already have filled out his part on each. You fill out your part which is simple, name, address, etc. Where is asks for your reason for wanting the weapon, you write "collection;" they can't turn that one down. You'll need to get four passport photos taken of yourself. A pair costs about $10 so photos will cost you $20. Take your pictures and form 4s and appropriate ID to a local law enforcement agency that will do official fingerprints for you. Most police departments will do this, for a fee. Sherwood PD charges $20 per card to do this. You need two cards per weapon, so fingerprinting will cost you $80. Next, take this all to your county sheriff. The sheriff's office will have one or two people authorized to sign these. Call for an appointment ahead of time. Washington County Sheriff is fortunately very good about this. They will also afix the pictures using official glue a service for which they charge nothing. The sheriff's office is the only step of the process that doesn't cost anything.

Next, mail your four Form 4s, you with the four pictures attached all signed by the sheriff's authorized deputy, and your four fingerprint cards AND two postal money orders for $200 each to the BATF. It's best to go registered mail with delivery receipt.

Two money orders for $200 each? Yes. The federal tax on these types of Class III weapons is $200 each. Fortunately, it is a tax, so you can deduct it off your federal income tax if you itemize.

Somewhere between about three and six months later, you will receive your completed Form 4s by return mail (one for each weapon; the other is retained by the BATF). Notice the tax stamp applied to each one. Cool.

Get these photocopied twice each immediately and laminate one copy of each. Put the originals in a very safe place because you must have them to lawfully own the weapon. Put the photocopies with the weapons because you must have either the original or a good photocopy of it physically with you whenever you have the weapon on you.

Take the originals and one copy of each to your dealer. He will take one copy of each Form 4 and give you -- at last, six months and five hundered dollars later -- your toys! But wait, there's more... paperwork that is, receipts to be filled out and signed.

Congratulations! You are now a lawfull owner of a suppressed pistol. You must carry a copy of both Form 4s with you whenever you carry the weapon (and, in this case, if you carry the pistol without the suppressor, you still have to carry its Form 4 since the pistol, being fitted for a suppressor, is, itself, a class III weapon). If you take the weapon across state lines, you must notify the BATF. If you move, you must notify the BATF. If you move, you either have to move your Class III stuff yourself or ship in through a Class III licensed dealer. Selling the weapon must be done through a Class III dealer and the buyer will need to go through everything you did.

It's a big pain in the rear end.
 
Gollnick said:
First, suppressors are less impressive in person than in the movies. I always laugh when the assassin shoots his target while he's asleep in bed without waking the lady sleeping next to him. No. Suppressors aren't that good.

I haven't seen the movie in question, but I can guess that the gun was a USP Tactical. I can tell you exactly what the process for lawfully owning that gun and suppressor is.

First, you must live in a Class III state. Oregon is. As far as I know, Iowa is not. Sorry.

Next, realize that a Class III "license" does not apply to a person but to a weapon owned by a person. If the suppressor can be detached from the gun, then you are actually talking about two Class III weapons, a gun with a threaded barrrel to accept a silencer, and the actual silencer. So, you'll actually need two Class III "licenses." So, you'll be going through the process twice in parallel.



Congratulations! You are now a lawfull owner of a suppressed pistol. You must carry a copy of both Form 4s with you whenever you carry the weapon (and, in this case, if you carry the pistol without the suppressor, you still have to carry its Form 4 since the pistol, being fitted for a suppressor, is, itself, a class III weapon). .
Wrong. First off, I'm not sure what "cans" you have been around, but most modern cans will suppress a 9mm into sounding like a clap of the hands. Pretty quiet. The .45 sounds more like a dull pop, still not very loud. Certainly not undetectable, but VERY quiet non the less.
Second, the pistol used was a Mk23. Was/is to an extent standard issue to the Seal teams as well as some Army SOCOM units.
Third and most important- a pistol with a threaded barrel IS NOT A CLASS III FIREARM. Unless Sig, Hk and Beretta (as well as others I'm sure)and the gunshop that I work in have been committing gross felonies for the past
several years. Here is an example of an excellent 9mm can for not much money and is very quiet...
*EDIT* If legal in your state, you can also MAKE a suppresser if approved by the ATF. This takes a "Form 1" IIRC...
http://www.advanced-armament.com/products/submachinegun/avenger.asp
8bd15b4f.jpg

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Well, m1Marty, what I can tell you from the experience of having done it getting on six years ago, is that when I did it, the USP Tactical (with is very similar to the Mk23 (and, as I said, I have not seen the movie in question) when fitted to receive the removable silencer was considered a Class III weapon unto itself and I had to do two Form 4s and buy two $200 tax stamps. Had I elected a pistol with a non-removable silencer, it would have been only one $200 stamp.

What I can also tell you from experience with a getting-on-six-year-old unit, is that the silencer, while very effective (especially with a bit of water in it), does not reduce the .45 to what I'd call a "dull pop." It's certainly not as effective as what I usually see in the movies.

If the rules have changed since I did mine, then I'm happy to hear it because I thought it was quite silly the way it was (not to mention expensive).
 
Gollnick- suppresser technology has come a long way in the last year, not to mention the last six. There are dry cans that "out quiet" the best wet cans from even two years ago. For a brief time after leaving active duty, I worked in a shop that made cans and got to test alot of them. GG&G/DVC out of AZ makes a can for the .50BMG that reduces the muzzle sig. to that of a .22mag. Now that's quiet!
 
AmadeusM said:
I have to wonder how quiet those integral supressor .22 cal Rugers are..
When used with a good can and subsonic ammo, they are quiet enough to literaly hear the bolt cycle and the *tink* of the firing pin dropping. The bullet makes a "ffffffffftttt" noise. A full auto rimfire sounds like a deck of cards being flipped. No kidding. Look at GemTech or AWC. OpsInc makes some awesome cans as well.:thumbup:
 
m1marty said:
suppresser technology has come a long way in the last year, not to mention the last six. There are dry cans that "out quiet" the best wet cans from even two years ago.

Wow. I guess I need to go back shopping again.

BTW, I like the suppressed .45 because what a lot of people don't think about home defense is that the sound of a .45 in a small room or a hallway can be -- at least temporarily -- deafening. (Some people don't think about this because they always shoot at a range with hearing protection on or at an open range at least.) Even six-year-old silencers take care of that.


Years ago, a friend of mine who is a Class III manufacturer specialized in short-barrel shotguns -- but who also fits silencers -- bragged to me that he could fit a silencer to any pistol. I was quite happy to hear that and presented one of mine for retrofit. He corrected himself and said, "I can fit a silencer to any pistol... except that one." The pistol in question is an H&K P7 with pneumatic recoil reduction. Do you know if they've solved that stumbling block yet?
 
On the P7, I am not sure. There are two solutions that come to mind- the "neilson" device and Gemtechs "L.I.D." Both offer an extra rearward "push" to help difficult to cycle guns run correctly. May work on yours?
Here is the Gemtech L.I.D. *EDIT* On second thought, the two above mentioned items would be moot on your gun "I Think" due to the fixed barrel. They are used for a tilting barrel application. With that in mind, I would ask one of the can companies what they think. The only thing that comes to mind as a problem is maybe pressure?
http://www.gem-tech.com/sos_45.html
 
Maybe I am confused as well on the threaded barrel issue, most pre-ban "assault rifles" have threaded barrels for the flash hider. They are not restricted by the NFA to the best of my knowledge.
 
JB in SC said:
Maybe I am confused as well on the threaded barrel issue, most pre-ban "assault rifles" have threaded barrels for the flash hider. They are not restricted by the NFA to the best of my knowledge.
No, they are not (as long as they meet the legal length with the brake/FH removed). After the AWB sunset just about every "assault" rifle had the barrel once again threaded. Pistols have had this for as long as I have been paying attention(15years). There is no issue with threads that I am aware of.
 
Only reason a threaded barrell would be another stamp has to be a state thing. I 've NEVER heard of it. It actually sounds like someone screwed up there. I would ask on Bowers Board actually. I have always seen,read understood a threaded can is swappable and the only registered item unless the gun was a machinegun,machine pistol,or a short barrelled rifle. They are a hoot and I agree on the in house use of a suppressor. I am itchin to go through the hoops again for an accurate setup in centerfire and a .22 muzzle can. The ole sten gun with a suppressor while extremely fun is not quite as accurate as I would like... ;)

oh and btw that did take two stamps :)
 
Back around 1989 or so I remember reading about a supressor that attached to the Beretta 92 pistol without any threads. I wonder if that one is still made..

I also vaguely remember that it was maybe issued to USAF pilots?
 
You also have to consider that next to the sound of a subsonic bullet ( supersonic bullets will always make a sonic boom) you also have to add the noise of the slide to the equation.
If you really wan't a good suppressed firearm you need something like a De Lisl carbine in .45 . These bolt action rifles use a big subsonic bullet (.45 ACP), an integral suppressor with baffles and they don't have noise from the action.

If you wan't a semi-automatic AND you wan't to go thru the paperwork you might look into the H&K MP5SD, also a class III firearm but with integral suppressor.
 
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