Classical European Swords: What's the difference between a $250.00 and a grand + one

[halromberg]

I just bought a fantastically expensive (by my standards) art sword from Lloyd Studios. It's a one-off custom deal with lots of very ornately carved Mammoth Ivory a beautiful differentially tempered lightening twist damascus blade and is set with strategically placed emeralds and rubies. (It's a pirate themed short sword). I kind of laughed at it and wasn't serious about it at all until I mentioned to Lloyd that it looked a bit too ornate and artsy to be a good user even if it was light and balanced and easy to grip etc. He said "really?" and whipped the blade around burying it more than spine deep into the pine 6x6 post next to him. Thunk. No rattle, no nothing, and not a mark on the edge or anywhere else on the blade. It went home with me that night.

Of note: Pay big attention to the light and balanced feel of a really good sword. I've only got one, but when you pick it up its like a fine Japanese blade in that you get this urge to start slicing tatami. Pick up a Cold Steel equivalent. Then pick up a really good one and you'll probably have the same reaction I did.

Don't have your CCard with you when you do it though. :-D

 

[Bors]

Pictures.....

 

[highanddry]

This tread kept me waiting for someone to bring up this blade
http://www.jloose.com/forumpics/langseaxfull3.18.08.jpg

Considering it's silver fittings, niello inlays and superb blade, this $ 5,000 sword put any $ 1,000 sword to shame, cost wise.
I am not an expert at all, but having seen the making of this beauty on bladesmith forum I became astonished after I saw a statement by another bladesmith that a sword as handcraft intensive (maybe less) as this took 250 hours to be made. Considering California minimum wage, that would sum up to $ 2.000 (and no one would pay the minimum for a extremely talented artist like J. Arthur Loose), without adding energy and material cost to the equation.
This guy recovered the niello art from a thousand years of oblivion!


I spent a whole week trying to devise a way to talk my wife into this, but I think I am just a freaking coward!

 

[The REAL Commander]

Quite the bizzarre looking sword I must say! I am curious if the cost is primarily due to the amount of man-hours put into the detailing, and the cost of the silver. I agree it is a nice looking sword, but if it is in fact made of silver (or partly made of), I do not feel it is meant to be used as a practical arming sword, but instead as decoration. Even if it was meant for combat, I doubt I would ever find myself knocking blades while using something that costs a month's wages. That unit would be solely for show in my house, like a focal display on a feature wall!!

 

[highanddry]

I also think most buyers of such a sword wouldn't put it to use.
On the other hand, some viking swords had silver engraved pommels and hilts too. It's the silver wrapped grip that I failed to see on ancient swords. But I am no expert at all, so it would be very nice if anyone could provide more information about this.
The beautiful blade's pattern recollects the looks of some pattern-welded blades of yore too, according to the bladesmith.

As expected, when I started a conversation with my wife about this she said plainly that my head would make a nice base for it. Not very polite, if you ask me!

 

[Triton]

This tread kept me waiting for someone to bring up this blade
http://www.jloose.com/forumpics/langseaxfull3.18.08.jpg

Considering it's silver fittings, niello inlays and superb blade, this $ 5,000 sword put any $ 1,000 sword to shame, cost wise.
I am not an expert at all, but having seen the making of this beauty on bladesmith forum I became astonished after I saw a statement by another bladesmith that a sword as handcraft intensive (maybe less) as this took 250 hours to be made. Considering California minimum wage, that would sum up to $ 2.000 (and no one would pay the minimum for a extremely talented artist like J. Arthur Loose), without adding energy and material cost to the equation.
This guy recovered the niello art from a thousand years of oblivion!


I spent a whole week trying to devise a way to talk my wife into this, but I think I am just a freaking coward!

A very interesting piece. I have to admit I'm a bit perplexed by it. It appears to be a fine piece of craftsmanship and if the maker in question has actually been able to do real niello work that's quite an accomplishment. Further it is a rather pretty piece. The puzzling thing though is why the maker would go to so much effort to recover a lost art and then not carry that research effort through the rest of the piece? The motif although beautifully done would appear to be anachronistic in execution for this style of sword as is that wire wrapped grip. As it is a conflict of interest so to speak I'll refrain from commenting upon the scabbard. The maker obviously has a lot of talent, it's the research aspects that I find confusing.

Here is the original for comparison purposes.

 

[highanddry]

As far as I could grasp, the artist's intent was to produce something inspired by the ancient swords, but not an exact copy. Initially, I also wondered why someone with such skill would not make a reproduction of that amazing sword.
The scabbard also stroke me as somewhat unfitting.
Afterwards I became convinced that he opted for a unique style, but not because he couldn't do otherwise. That impression was reinforced by his statement that he doesn't take custom orders.

Triton, you said the silver wire wrapped grip was anachronistic. Does it mean it was used by Vikings of a different time or that it was not a viking style at all? Could you recommend some books on viking swords?
Thanks:thumbup:

 

[Triton]

As far as I could grasp, the artist's intent was to produce something inspired by the ancient swords, but not an exact copy. Initially, I also wondered why someone with such skill would not make a reproduction of that amazing sword.
The scabbard also stroke me as somewhat unfitting.
Afterwards I became convinced that he opted for a unique style, but not because he couldn't do otherwise. That impression was reinforced by his statement that he doesn't take custom orders.

That certainly makes sense. I'm afraid I let my own preferences run away with me. For me the best sword is the one that most closely resembles the original, I forget sometimes that this is not the case for all (or probably even most) folks.

Triton, you said the silver wire wrapped grip was anachronistic. Does it mean it was used by Vikings of a different time or that it was not a viking style at all? Could you recommend some books on viking swords?
Thanks:thumbup:

It is my understanding that it is not a Viking era style at all. So far as I'm aware there is only one Viking sword that anyone has even tried to say had a wire wrapped hilt and to my eyes the wire wrapping is obviously a later addition... Grips were more typically of wood, horn or bone according to the reading I've done.

Of the books I've read on Viking Swords to me, the definitive one is Swords of the Viking Age by Ian Peirce. There are of course others but that one would be the one I got if I only could have one.

 

[highanddry]

It is my understanding that it is not a Viking era style at all. So far as I'm aware there is only one Viking sword that anyone has even tried to say had a wire wrapped hilt and to my eyes the wire wrapping is obviously a later addition... Grips were more typically of wood, horn or bone according to the reading I've done.

Of the books I've read on Viking Swords to me, the definitive one is Swords of the Viking Age by Ian Peirce. There are of course others but that one would be the one I got if I only could have one.


Many Thanks Man! :thumbup:

 

[Triton]

It is my understanding that it is not a Viking era style at all. So far as I'm aware there is only one Viking sword that anyone has even tried to say had a wire wrapped hilt and to my eyes the wire wrapping is obviously a later addition... Grips were more typically of wood, horn or bone according to the reading I've done.

Of the books I've read on Viking Swords to me, the definitive one is Swords of the Viking Age by Ian Peirce. There are of course others but that one would be the one I got if I only could have one.


Many Thanks Man! :thumbup:

No problem, hope you have a chance to pick up a copy, and thanks for sharing a previously unknown to me artist...

 

[Bors]

This tread kept me waiting for someone to bring up this blade
http://www.jloose.com/forumpics/langseaxfull3.18.08.jpg

Considering it's silver fittings, niello inlays and superb blade, this $ 5,000 sword put any $ 1,000 sword to shame, cost wise.
I am not an expert at all, but having seen the making of this beauty on bladesmith forum I became astonished after I saw a statement by another bladesmith that a sword as handcraft intensive (maybe less) as this took 250 hours to be made. Considering California minimum wage, that would sum up to $ 2.000 (and no one would pay the minimum for a extremely talented artist like J. Arthur Loose), without adding energy and material cost to the equation.
This guy recovered the niello art from a thousand years of oblivion!


I spent a whole week trying to devise a way to talk my wife into this, but I think I am just a freaking coward!

That's quite the sword the workmanship looks to be top shelf. You don't see many single edge viking swords. But I think the bulk of what your paying for is the artistic work. It would look great on display but I would not want to carry it. Silver is difficult to keep polished out in the elements. Impressive court sword though.

Also IMHO wire wrap handles are terrible on working swords. They look good but there not very practical. Extended use without gloves tends to be hard on the hand however, gloves pretty much fix this. The grip is not so good when wet but again with gloves is OK. But the down side to gloves is the grip size of the viking sword (in most cases) is cramped with gloves (unless you have small hands). The wire likes to come loose with time mainly do to the wood and leather expanding or contracting or the wire stretching.

The scabbard is nice but like the wire grip does not really fit the sword. As an investment for display it would be nice but not as a working sword.