Clay hardening questions

razormaker

razormaker

Joined
Mar 6, 2015
Messages
99
I guess technically this is called the hamon line. I am trying to do this on my razors and maybe a knife later. I got some furnace cement at the hardware store, I am using it straight, without mixing anything else with it. I packed it on fairly thick, 1/4 inch thick, and let it dry for about 20 minutes until firm. I put it in for the heat treat. When it comes out the clay has puffed up and expanded to the point I wonder if it will be effective. It also flames up pretty good when I quench.

Seems like this is not right? Also, do I leave on the clay for tempering?

Is ferric chloride and vinegar mix good for darkening the line after finish grinding. This is the solution I use for Damascus. How long should I soak it?

Trying to find my way along in this big ol' knife world, any advice is appreciated.
 
The short answer is to do some searches using the Bladeforums custom search engine and look up yake0ire, clay coating, clay hardening, how to form a hamon, etc.
https://cse.google.com/cse/publicurl?cx=012217165931761871935:iqyc7cbzhci

The subject is vast, and there are different ideas on how to do it best, but the most successful ones use thin layers of clay.

I have found that the stove cement from the hardware store lifts badly and is a poor material for vibrant hamon formation.

Normally, satanite of a similar clay type refractory is used. Start with a thin wash over the whole blade ( thickness of watery pancake mix). Dry it well. Then use a thicker clay mix (thickness of sour cream) to form the built up part along the spine. This should only be 1/16" to 1/8" thick. Too thick causes problems.

Walter Sorrels has several great videos on this, and they are well worth purchasing and watching.
 
I have been using Rutlands Black high temp furnace cement. It will puff up on you if you don't let it dry enough. My suggestion would be to put a thin wash over the blade first as Stacy suggests. When dry apply your heavier coat along the spine as Stacy suggests. Then stick the end of the tang in a vise and let that firm up. When it is firm enough to handle place it in a pre heated kitchen oven or toaster oven set to "warm" or not exceeding 150˚ or so. Let it dry in there for 10 minutes give or take. Then austenitize and quench your blade. The cement will be much more durable through the quench and be harder to get off as well. You do not need to leave the cement on for tempering. Clean the blade up with a wire brush and scrape off what you can. Then wash the blade thoroughly before putting it in a kitchen oven for tempering. You don't want oil fumes stinking up your kitchen.

Furnace cement works fine. But this stuff has been done a lot by others. They have figured out a lot of this already. So don't try to reinvent the wheel. Read everything you can on the subject and see what common themes arise. Satanite seems to be the go to cement for the best results. FeCl, lemon juice, vinegar work well for developing the line. Do a search as Stacy mentioned. There are a ton of threads discussing the technique.



Here are a few to get you started:


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/301669-Muriatic-Acid-or-Feric-chloride

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/383758-Hamon-Etching-vs-polishing

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...u-don-t-have-anymore-activity-or-whispy-stuff

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/712415-Hamon-Formation

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/720029-Help-with-hamon

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/827831-first-hamon

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/640876-Hamon-and-Differential-Hardening-Theory

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/914634-Whats-happening-to-create-a-hamon

http://www.americanbladesmith.com/ipboard/index.php?/topic/429-hamons-topic-for-november-2011/

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/663988-Clay-Quench-Question

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/552059-Clay-coating-blades

http://www.bladesmithsforum.com/index.php?showtopic=3308

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/876093-Question-on-applying-clay-on-blades

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1227392-What-s-in-your-Hamon-quot-kit-quot

http://ryanwknives.blogspot.com/2013/01/my-personal-hamon-process.html
 
Thank you, this is exactly the type of advice I rely on Blade Forums for. Money well spent for a great forum.
 
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