Claymore or katana?

I know many master swordsmen of late were self taught. I would suggest buying non-sharp versions of both swords, wood is better to start with.
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Whom do you mean by master swordsmen (and when)? If you mean Musashi... he was trained since around 5 years old by his father, a more than competent swordsman... lots of hype about him...
Not sure I could mention many others who were self-taught other than some rare individuals who survived times of war... and codified their knowledge over time... Musashi certainly learned and applied what he already knew...

I also quite agree about the non-sharp idea, unfortunately, quite a few iaito do not take stress very well - you can snap their blades from fatigue even cutting air (due to properties of the aluminum alloys used and the typically thin cross-section)....
I like the idea of getting a bokken and good waster. Perhaps you could clarify more what you're looking for? Claymores tend to be.. much heavier than katana, though both weigh over 2 lbs and under 8 lbs usually.
 
Have you read any translated texts about Mushashi? I have only read a couple and was not aware that so much of his early years were known. I would like more information along those lines.

While it is true that he had to have been shown something, isn't it also true that the majority of his training was in solitude? I read the other day about a man who was self taught in needle throwing, he was a master of it but could not teach any students, none of them could learn the technique, even though he had never been taught it himself. He said he tried to throw them until he could, practice being the key.

I am reminded of two stories I have read in a book about white crane Qigong. One is of an archer who is a master of his art and is very cocky, then he meets an oilseller that is amazing at his ability to pour oil, when he asks the oilseller how he came to do things that seemed so impossible, the oil seller replied that practice was all there was. The archer then knew he had nothing to be cocky about, and he was not better than anyone, he had applied himself and practiced and from that day began to apply himself and practice even more, to become one of the greatest archers in the land.

The second story is also archery. It has to do with a man who want to be an archer asking a master to teach him. The master tells the man first he must watch incense burn out in the morning and night for over a year (3 I think), the man does this and returns, the master tells him that before he teaches him the man must watch his wife weave, keeping his eyes on the moving part of the loom, again for several years. The man does this and returns, the master tells him that before he can teach him, he must make 10 baskets a day for years again. Determined to become an archer the man does this, even though a normal basket maker would not try more than 5 a day. It isn't easy but he becomes so good that after a time he can make 20 a day.
When he returned to the master, the master let him know there was nothing more he could teach.

Those skills gave him patience and powers of observation and concentration, and the skills and strength needed. In 9 years the man saw his master 3 times and never fired a single arrow, but found himself at the end of that time to be a proficiency archer.

There is a lot to the stories and I leave much of it up to your own interpretation, except to say that what makes a master is something that cannot be taught or passed on. It is something that comes from within and can be had through determination, considerable effort and humility.

It is wise, if one wishes to become proficient in a subject or develop skill, such as swordplay, that ones studies as much as they can. Good teachers can be as rare as good students, however perhaps if one wishes to become a master of swords, one must accept the sword as ones teacher and take it in hand and learn. The sword need not be sharp or even steel.

I am sorry for saying that masters are often self taught, perhaps this is too glib. Still I have a feeling that mastery cannot be taught and that some of the best teachers merely teach their students to teach themselves. My favorite teachers have always claimed to be students.

Please forgive the duration of my response.

I would like to suggest that mastery is mostly mental. I have seen people practice knife fighting with a toothbrush and still feel I am seeing something so much more dangerous than a man with a toothbrush.
 
Simple answer - try contacting the people at Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu.
Can't say I've read much of the stuff translated ABOUT Musashi... have been browsing through the Five Rings and I'll admit I don't understand all of it.
There were a couple of discussions about "self-teaching" which is quite a bit different from being "taught about self" to attain mastery... or perhaps, "taught how to examine self".... would be more appropriate?

I quite agree - archery is a VERY simple skill to learn, and exceedingly difficult to master. The same could be said of many arts... swordsmanship is relatively simple... you can only wield the weapon so many ways, but it's the timing, speed, force, and variations that separate the beginner from the veteran.
 
In a way, swords are like people they all have different personalities and the more you expose your self too the better you become at managing them. However, in the beginning, learning will be best served and less frustrating with a sword whose personality closely matches your own.

Good places for research and finding a quality sword are:

My Armoury http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/index.php
Sword Forum International http://swordforum.com/

To quote Toshiro Mifune
Mastery of the sword cannot be taught—you must find it yourself.
“The sword of Darkness”

I wish you luck on the thousand mile road
 
-Cataclysm- said:
I'm thinking about getting a sword soon, and I was thinking I should either get a claymore or a katana. What should I get?
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What you want the sword for?
A sword is not just a big knife, and knife training is quite useless with a sword.
The only thing you can pass from knife to sword, or from any other martial art to sword, is the concept of "tempo".
The timing of your action balanced upon that of your opponent. It's something that requires both an innate ability to judge and training, and one of the hardest things to obtain.
For the rest, swords need proper training.
DO NOT start with a sharp sword. A yard long piece of sharpened steel is a mightly dangerous object that can play very nasty tricks upon the unskilled and unwary.
BE SAFE.
Start with a blunt training weapon.
For sparrying wooden weapons are better, padded ones are best.
Using wooden weapons you'll spare the expensive, steel ones for contests and for when steel matters.
Sharp weapons should be used for cutting practice only.
Never, EVER sparry with sharp weapons. The slightest mistake you could regret for the rest of your life.
It seems a silly advice, but I personally know people who sparried with live swords, and personally witnessed a guy being almost killed when a sharp axe blade stuck in a wooden plank not one inch from his head due to a broken handle.
 
Alarion-I am no sword expert but I disagree that knife training is useless for sword use. It depends on the style that you train in perhaps but I use many of the same angles, cutting techniques with a bowie as I do with a sword. There are differences between the hand position with sword and knife and some body mechanics between the two but they both cut. Saying that one set of training is useless for another without providing limitations is a gross overstatement. Are you talking fencing swords versus bowies, hideaway knives versus claymores, wakizashi versus tantos? As the lines between knife and sword blur is there not room for similarities in use between the two?
I agree that many techniques may not be totally applicable in all circumstances but once one understands the base mechanics of either tool/weapon that will enhance the understanding of the other. Just my opinion though- everybody is entitled to their own.
 
CUTS LIKE A KRIS said:
Alarion-I am no sword expert but I disagree that knife training is useless for sword use. It depends on the style that you train in perhaps but I use many of the same angles, cutting techniques with a bowie as I do with a sword. There are differences between the hand position with sword and knife and some body mechanics between the two but they both cut. Saying that one set of training is useless for another without providing limitations is a gross overstatement. Are you talking fencing swords versus bowies, hideaway knives versus claymores, wakizashi versus tantos? As the lines between knife and sword blur is there not room for similarities in use between the two?
I agree that many techniques may not be totally applicable in all circumstances but once one understands the base mechanics of either tool/weapon that will enhance the understanding of the other. Just my opinion though- everybody is entitled to their own.
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I tend to agree with you. Many knife techniques are in fact derived from sword techniques. One example would be the Bowie; the basic forms are derived in large part from the saber. One thing they all have in common is the state of mind (spirit of winning), which is a product of discipline, training and understanding. To win with a paring knife is the same as winning with a sword they are one in the same.
 
Well said - mastery is gained not through teaching, but through remaining a student. I am a very new student of knives and knife use in deadly situations. I am well versed in the use of rifle, handguns, and shotguns, as well as other weapons, but I am a student always. The scariest thing I have experienced in my life, 60 years and counting, was to stand in the forge of a well known knife and sword maker and have him simply hand me a katana. The obvious grace and total control of this beautiful weaapon told me that I will be a student, or dead, for a very long time.
 
Lion of Narnia said:
I stated this on another thread, if there was a Swords 101 textbook THIS essay would be chapter 1:

http://www.thearma.org/essays/nobest.htm
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Sorry if I am sidetracking a little bit the thread at this point, but I would like to add a few points to the Mr. Reinhardt's essay quoted above.

First of all, I am no expert in any weapons or their history, swords included.

The Eurasian steppe nomads of medieval times left ample archeological evidence and historical records by neighbours or travelers to the nature of their swords. Both straight swords and thrusting sabres were used by them, as evident of the following reproductions of straight Avar swords and the just lightly curved Magyar (Hungarian) sabre-like sword with a thrusting point and sharpened at the last 1/3-1/4 of the back of the sword too (this part is called "fok" in Hungarian) for back cuts similar to the type used in Bowie knife fighting techniques.

http://sepsik.freeweb.hu/bemutato/avar-kardok/avar-kard.html

http://sepsik.freeweb.hu/bemutato/10-oldal/szablyak.html

http://www.berbekuczviktor.hu/

At the last link go to the "Kardok - Schwerter" section and there the SZ02, SZ03, SZ06 and SZ10 are reproductions of 9-10th Century Magyar sabres.


I also would like to remind you the Cossack shashkas which are both slashing and thrusting swords used by horsemen.
What is evident from this is that there are more facts out there than known to the popular experts of the day.
Also, there are existing historical examples for the types of swords Mr. Reinhardt thought would be better, like the sharpened military sabres he is talking about towards the end of his essay.

More knowleadgeable folks might provide further examples from other steppe warrior nations (e.g. Mongols?).
 
inspira said:
Don't use a sword you aren't trained to use.
If you are trained in using a claymore then get a claymore for use. Same with the katana.

I have a bokken (practise wooden katana) and well, lets just say if I had a live blade i'd be missing a few limbs. Its dangerous. Please make sure you have swordsman training before purchasing a live blade.
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...or buy some blunt "reenactor" sword (or iaito). Looks equally impressive and is mostly harmless.
 
Del Tin, Italy, make great practise swords intended for use and at a good price.
Takes some time to get the Sword, but they are well worth the wait. Anyway they make a nice claymore, if your serious about practising.

http://www.deltin.it/home.htm
 
in my openien i would go with the katana but the claymor is a very cool
sword it all depends on your fighting style. claymors are big and heavy.
katans are farly light (by light i mean quit a bit lighter then the
claymor) there both good blades just pick it to sute your style :D
 
Robert Marotz said:
I say get a Claytana...that'd rule. :)
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Robert, you're just plain nasty.:D

Okieforger, coolness has nothing to do with a choice of a sword. By the time one has invested the time and money necessary to really learn a sword art, be it Eastern or Western, one should have better reasons for choosing that particular sword than its relative "coolness." Please consider the cost of having a really well-made custom sword of any type made and then tell me that you are going to invest in it because it is "cool."
 
Okie?

This thread had not seen any activity in over six months when you posted to it. Some of these individuals do not post here anymore and thus, won't be adding any further opinions or observations. While I can understand bumping a dead thread to the top to add an insightful observation or source of information relevant to the topic or of general interest that had been overlooked earlier, you did not do this.

I mention this because you seem to be making a habit of it. It's disruptive at best and is considered trolling at its worst. If the thread has not seen activity in six months (or a year, or six years -- as in that one katana thread you bumped recently) and your proposed input is limited to a simple opinion that one is cool and one is heavy, perhaps it would be better to let the topic remain dead. Perhaps you could even start a new one?

But this is just my opinion, and we all know what they're worth, don't we?
 
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