Cleaning diamond stones

C

cjordan

Joined
Jul 29, 2012
Messages
85
Alright... I know this has been covered several times on here, and various other sites.
I've tried Bar Keepers Friend, Dawn dishwashing soap, Windex, Gun Scrubber, and a pink eraser, but none seem to be working.
I'm going to try to attach some pictures of some diamond stones that are fairly new, maybe twenty sharpenings or so.
The problem I'm having is my 100grit stone has a lot of dark gray embedded into the stone which hopefully you will be able to see in the picture.
It doesn't seem to cut nearly as good as it did when it was new "obviously", but it has sharpened the same amount as my 140grit stone, but the 140 doesn't have the dark gray spots in it, and it seems to cut a lot better than the 100grit. While using the 100grit it almost sounds like it's sliding over the edge versus cutting into the edge. Hopefully this all makes sense. I'm just wondering if any of y'all have had the same issue and if so how did you correct it? Or if any of y'all have any other recommendations?

I have sharpened with the stones dry, but normally use a mixture of dawn and water on the stone while sharpening.

If the pictures show up you'll see two stones in one picture. The left stone is a 140grit the right stone is the 100grit just to show the difference in the two.

Thanks for any and all help y'all can provide.

Alright so I'm going to have to figure out how to attach pictures, but I'll get them attached as soon as possible
 
Well I'm using an IPhone but can't seem to copy any pictures over. I'll have to mess with it afterwhile.
 
BKF works great for mine. They look like brand new after cleaning with BKF. You may have damaged your plates. We need to see the pictures to know for sure.
 
The description of the 'sliding' feeling of the blade over the surface sounds like the hone might be clogged heavily with swarf. I've seen that happen with some softer, low-alloy stainless steels on coarser diamond hones, and more so if they're used dry with such steels. The swarf comes off the blade in ribbons, essentially, clinging to and blanketing the surface of the abrasive. Those 'ribbons' of swarf are heavier and thicker, being cut by a very coarse diamond hone. When that happens, the surface gets very slick-feeling on the hone, under the blade.

If the above is happening, I'd also suggest extra work with the BKF and a little water, as previously suggested, along with some pretty assertive scrubbing with a stiff brush.

Some pictures might be helpful. But my first instinct tells me the hone is probably in need of more scrubbing with the help of BKF and a stiff brush. Might even utilize a block of wood as a scrubber, which could help dislodge very tenaciously-clinging swarf on the hone.
 
Yes sir I feel as though it's swarf that's clogged the stone, I have used a fairly stiff bristled nylon brush but I might just need to spend more time cleaning on it. I'm still trying to figure out how to attach pictures as soon as I figure that out I'll get them posted for y'all to see.
I haven't ever heard of using wood to scrub with but I'll give that a try. What do y'all think about using a brass bristle brush? Seems like the brass would be harder than the nylon but still softer than the diamond
 
cjordan said:
Yes sir I feel as though it's swarf that's clogged the stone, I have used a fairly stiff bristled nylon brush but I might just need to spend more time cleaning on it. I'm still trying to figure out how to attach pictures as soon as I figure that out I'll get them posted for y'all to see.
I haven't ever heard of using wood to scrub with but I'll give that a try. What do y'all think about using a brass bristle brush? Seems like the brass would be harder than the nylon but still softer than the diamond
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I'd be a little concerned about the brass itself being deposited on the hone. It's kind of bad about leaving traces of itself on other things like harder metals (the nickel of the diamond plate), sometimes. It doesn't come off easy, either. Sort of similar to a galling effect. The wood won't cling to the hone like a soft metal will; it's easily washed/rinsed away.

One of our other members here has mentioned using a piece of oak for scrubbing diamond hones, and it seems a pretty good suggestion to me. The end-grain of a piece of wood can act sort of like a very stiff brush, without presenting some of the issues brought by scrubbing metal on a diamond hone.
 
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The BKF needs to be used properly too - don't just wipe it on and scrub it right off. Make a paste and apply it to the plate uniformly and let it sit for a few minutes. The active ingredient in this case is oxalic acid - which can dissolve steel. It's not a very strong concentration so it takes quite some time, but if you apply it and let it sit for a while it will loosen up stuck particles pretty well. Then scrub with something like a dish scrubber sponge with the plastic scrub side.

Using this method cleans better than anything I've EVER tried. I have about a 15 year old HEAVILY used DMT ''C" (325) that still looks almost brand new after cleaning this way.
 
BKF is amazing stuff. It's removed stains, (non-knife related),that literally no other chemical or cleaner I tried made a dent in. And reduced the amount of elbow grease required for the job exponentially.

Working well with ceramic and other hones is just an added bonus. I'd hate to be without it.
 
eKretz said:
The BKF needs to be used properly too - don't just wipe it on and scrub it right off. Make a paste and apply it to the plate uniformly and let it sit for a few minutes. The active ingredient in this case is oxalic acid - which can dissolve steel. It's not a very strong concentration so it takes quite some time, but if you apply it and let it sit for a while it will loosen up stuck particles pretty well. Then scrub with something like a dish scrubber sponge with the plastic scrub side.

Using this method cleans better than anything I've EVER tried. I have about a 15 year old HEAVILY used DMT ''C" (325) that still looks almost brand new after cleaning this way.
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Thanks guys I haven't let the BKF set for more than a few seconds before scrubbing and washing it off. I will try to let it set for a few minutes before scrubbing and washing it off
 
I'll provide an alternative theory... that you've simply worn down your 100g stone over time. The coarser grit stones tend to do the "grunt" work... so while it may seem that you use all the stones the same, for example you go thru all the stones when you sharpen a knife, the coarse stone does the bulk of the work, and receives the most wear... especially if they're smaller stones like on an Edge Pro or KME sharpener and/or you've done a bit of reprofiling or damage repair with them..

You'll see a similar example with the "regular' SiC or AO stones... where the coarse stones wear down at a much faster rate than the finer stones. (Not exactly the same reason, but gives you an idea).

Obviously, see if cleaning proves me wrong... but it might just be time for a new 100g stone. (And maybe use your older stone as a new "medium" stone).

p.s. If you have a free account here, you have to post you pictures to a hosting site like imgur... then post the link here.
 
Try dressing some whetstones without too much water so you build up a slurry. You want to rub the slurry into the diamond stone to clean the swarf out. Maybe try the stiff bristle brush after the stone and before washing the slurry off just for good measure.
 
eKretz said:
BKF works great for mine. They look like brand new after cleaning with BKF. You may have damaged your plates. We need to see the pictures to know for sure.
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yeah I tend to agree with "eKretz" because I haven't run into any sharpening stone yet that Bar Keeper's Friend has not been able to make them look like factory new. And I've said for almost 10 years now on these forums if any of you find any cleaning compound that works better on sharpening stones than Bar Keeper's Friend I will switch immediately. Especially on ceramic stones I've never found anything that is even a close second to BKF.

OK I have had some experience cleaning the 4 diamond Benchstones that I currently own ( 3M, Norton, DMT & Gerber) and I've used a really strong solution I made with the "Platinum Overnight formula of Dawn Dishwashing liquid Soap". And like the one brother says use a toothbrush and carefully stroke it all away. Now I've also found that it helps to soak it in the Platinum Overnight Dawn solution ( and sometimes even overnight) before you scrub the filings away. It's incredible what I've found that the new formula, Platinum Overnight Dawn can clean. For other stones I developed a soaking solution of Machinist Soluable D Oil mixed with Ammonia and Dish Soap ( Use the Dawn on that one too). And I usually soak stones overnight with that solution and I've had good success using that pre-soak..
 
The diamonds on these "stones" are held in place by electroless nickel plating. The nickel is relatively soft-and using stone slurry can quickly damage it.
 
If that were true, how do you explain the extensive and successful use of diamond plates to flatten stones?
There's an old Atoma 140 here with countless hours rubbed long and hard on all sorts of very abrasive stones that would disagree with your premise.
 
Bill is correct, but the grit of the diamond plate and the amount of slurry you let build up both play a large role in this happening. With a finer diamond plate (600 or higher grit) this is very easy to do and will strip the diamonds right off the plate.

I often use a 1000 grit Atoma plate for making slurry on Japanese natural stones and the one time I didn't use care and didn't use running water while doing so, the slurry built up enough to take a section of diamond right off the plate about 2" in diameter. It's best to use a fairly coarse diamond plate for stone lapping and to keep it constantly rinsed with running water.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
The diamonds on these "stones" are held in place by electroless nickel plating. The nickel is relatively soft-and using stone slurry can quickly damage it.
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Are you sure? The nickle alloys I am familiar with on plated tools are very hard and wear resistant to erosion from the slurry. I machine a lot of stone and some of my tools are plated so I have a lot of experience with this, but their bond is a vacuum brazed nickle/ reactive metals alloy. Some tools last for years grinding stone and I have never retired one because the bond was too worn.
 
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