Clip pt. vs. Insingo fit and finish

nbp said:
I understand what you are saying. But companies change products and services being offered all the time. While I was not here at the time the Insingo was released, I am very confident that what you say is true and that when first offered there was probably a good reason they didn't do certain blade swaps. If that remains the case, no problem! However if it simply a case of "this is how we've always done it and we're not going to change now!", well, that would be a bummer. I don't think changing a policy based on changing circumstances is really the same as playing favorites. Perhaps what could not be offered before for sound reasons can be offered now without issue. I really don't know. Arbitrary rules for the sake of rules is sucking the fun out of life these days. This is more a general critique of all manner of odd policies and rules we encounter than just a rant over Insingos.
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I totally get it :)
 
For what it's worth, I think the limited offering of Insingo handle styles is one of the biggest "misses" in the CRK line-up. In many ways, the small Insingo has become one of CRKs flagship pocket knives, and I personally think it would be well suited to "dressing up" in box elder, other woods, or perhaps graphics. I don't see the Insingo blade as strictly utilitarian. It's got it's own charm and beauty, and would fit the "gentleman's folder" role quite well alongside the multitude of other makers sheepsfoot/wharnecliffe dressy folders out there. A good example is the huge success of the various Northwoods wharncliffes that have been offered (and sold out in hours) in various fancy covers (mammoth etc).

Just my two bits.......have always wanted a small Insingo in something a little more fancy.
 
kidcongo said:
For what it's worth, I think the limited offering of Insingo handle styles is one of the biggest "misses" in the CRK line-up. In many ways, the small Insingo has become one of CRKs flagship pocket knives, and I personally think it would be well suited to "dressing up" in box elder, other woods, or perhaps graphics. I don't see the Insingo blade as strictly utilitarian. It's got it's own charm and beauty, and would fit the "gentleman's folder" role quite well alongside the multitude of other makers sheepsfoot/wharnecliffe dressy folders out there. A good example is the huge success of the various Northwoods wharncliffes that have been offered (and sold out in hours) in various fancy covers (mammoth etc).

Just my two bits.......have always wanted a small Insingo in something a little more fancy.
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Good point. I wonder if I were to buy a box elder clip point if they'd take my extra insingo blade and swap it in....


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I would ask the necessary question directly from CRK before purchasing in hopes of making the swap..Just my two cents ;)
 
dkblade said:
I bought my large plain 21 insingo double lug about 16 months ago, and noticed immediately after receiving it the detent was too strong and the blade was a millimeter off center. On a tenacious or a cold steel I'd chalk it up to price point, but on a $460 knife I couldn't accept it, so I sent it back to CRK. 8 weeks later I got the knife back with a silky smooth detent and perfectly centered blade. The detent remained silky, but within 2 weeks the blade had drifted off center, and the knife was prone to minor lock stick. It bothered me more than it should, but on a knife this expensive With such close tolerances i expected next to perfection. I still carried the knife and just did my best to ignore these minor first world problems.

Well I used it a lot but decided one day I wanted a clip point, so I sent it back to CRK 2 months ago and had a double silver lug clip point with all silver hardware installed to the tune of $200. I received it last week and I couldn't believe how perfect the knife was when I got it back! The detent felt perfect, the blade opened smoother than the insingo ever did, and the centering, even after disassembly and reassembly, remains as dead center as could possibly be. The lock has had absolutely zero semblance of lock stick, even with minor flicking which i occasionally do because it's my knife and I feel like it!


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Cool info. Thanks for sharing!
 
I would very much like to hear from people who have swapped out the blades themselves. It was very odd to me that CRK would ask that I send the knife in when purchasing a drop point blade for my small 21 insingo.

Obviously I know they have rigorous standards, for which I am grateful, but I really did not think it could be such a difficult task.

Having said all of that, the company has earned my trust and I'll suffer the inconvenience if necessary. Ideally, I would love to buy a drop point with wood inserts with which I could swap blades myself. Perhaps it's a pipe dream.
 
Wrobelan said:
I would very much like to hear from people who have swapped out the blades themselves. It was very odd to me that CRK would ask that I send the knife in when purchasing a drop point blade for my small 21 insingo.

Obviously I know they have rigorous standards, for which I am grateful, but I really did not think it could be such a difficult task.

Having said all of that, the company has earned my trust and I'll suffer the inconvenience if necessary. Ideally, I would love to buy a drop point with wood inserts with which I could swap blades myself. Perhaps it's a pipe dream.
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I've always been curious about this as well. I know they want to ensure fit and finish, but with such small tolerances (ten thousandths of an inch) in manufacturing, you'd think they could just ship you a replacement blade and trust that it will fit your handle slabs. No?
 
Hmm, this got me thinking. Could I swap blades on my small insingo and small MM clip?
 
The tolerances sometimes help but then again, they can hurt too..This is an area where they can hurt.
it would take me some time to explain..but here is the short of it. The pivot hole is likely the origin of the part (home position where measurements are measured from to compare to a print origin).
The angle that meets the lockbar is critical in size, shape and position to ensure that the lockbar travels no more than a given distance when assembled. For now, let's just say we forget about variance or the allowable tolerances in all the mating parts and just focus on the lockbar scale and the blade. 1/4-1/2 degree of angle change makes a huge difference where the lockbar falls. Every .0005in move off of nominal in the x-axis (perpendicular to the angled mating surface of the blade) makes a huge change where the lockbar falls. Then there is rotation about the Z-axis, thickness of the blade, warp of the blade, warp of the scale, nominal bend of the lockbar. Torsional twist of the lockbar...etc..I am sure there are more..but these are what I can come up with..and this is without taking into account some of the other parts that are going to help or hurt the fitting of a blade along with their own variance from nominal tolerances.

There is and probably always be alot of post machining processing or handwork on many CRK folders. It's not rocket science for sure, but it is probably a whole lot more efficient to fit by hand than to combine all of these factors.
I will try to make a CAD illustration of the main factor of this later this week if I can find the time.
 
Here is a pic for a visual with a Umnumzaan that I modeled up in CAD.



As the face in red on the blade moves normal to the lockbar in the X axis, the lockbar drop is magnified around 12x.
For example, if you took off .0005in accurately, the drop of the lockbar will be about .006in
Again, this isn't taking account deformation of the lockbar twist, rotation from the cutouts at the end or warp.

Make more sense now? With tolerance stacking between the mating parts, it's very difficult to achieve all of this straight off of the CNC.
 
bhyde said:
Here is a pic for a visual with a Umnumzaan that I modeled up in CAD.

Make more sense now? With tolerance stacking between the mating parts, it's very difficult to achieve all of this straight off of the CNC.
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Makes much more sense. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it!
 
bhyde said:
Here is a pic for a visual with a Umnumzaan that I modeled up in CAD.



As the face in red on the blade moves normal to the lockbar in the X axis, the lockbar drop is magnified around 12x.
For example, if you took off .0005in accurately, the drop of the lockbar will be about .006in
Again, this isn't taking account deformation of the lockbar twist, rotation from the cutouts at the end or warp.

Make more sense now? With tolerance stacking between the mating parts, it's very difficult to achieve all of this straight off of the CNC.
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That does really clarify the situation. I appreciate your insights.
 
bhyde said:
Here is a pic for a visual with a Umnumzaan that I modeled up in CAD.


As the face in red on the blade moves normal to the lockbar in the X axis, the lockbar drop is magnified around 12x.
For example, if you took off .0005in accurately, the drop of the lockbar will be about .006in
Again, this isn't taking account deformation of the lockbar twist, rotation from the cutouts at the end or warp.

Make more sense now? With tolerance stacking between the mating parts, it's very difficult to achieve all of this straight off of the CNC.
Click to expand...

Thank you for all the time you put into the CAD mockup. Your detailed description ameliorates any concerns I've had about varying lockup among Sebenzas.
 
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