Close call?

"Always be aware of your surroundings"
My "Better Half" is a CO at a county facility
and we see ex inmates quite frequently, some who have told her that they would like to look her up when they got out.That's enough for me. A S&W M36 or My Glock 27 are usually close by

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JimBob
 
I have not used a knife in a defensive scenario, nor would I ever unless it was the absolute last option available. Anything can be used as a weapon, and if battle is at close quarters with no firearm available, I'd prefer a bludgeoning weapon or a good quality pepper spray to create distance and time in my favor. I have, in several incidents, used bludgeoning weapons with some effect. I have, in many instances, used pepper sprays with devastating effectiveness. I have only personally seen, after over 250 documented "sprayings", one complete failure of the pepper.

Most states allow the average citizen to carry pepper for defensive purposes, so let's not forget that option.

To be legally justified in using force, you must show a reasonable escalation of force options and/or that you entered the scenario at an appropriate level of force. Pepper sprays, being the lowest level of force beyond soft hand techniques, are easy to justify. Additionally, they will, in MOST instances, create distance, from which you may find an avenue of safe retreat.

Beware, however! Many over-the-counter aerosol subject restraints are weakened "civilianized" versions of police/military formulations. Do some research and get a good quality product, just as you do with your knives. When/if you acquire an aerosol, acquire at least two cans. One should be used for training, as they do require some practice firing. Lastly, get some professional training/advise on the proper use of an aerosol subject restraint - contrary to popular belief, it is not like spraying a can of hair spray.
 
To cerulean: I'm sure you feel you response of limited escalation was a good, logical alternative method. I don't much care for 'Rambo' threads, but it shows you were thinking.
But your premise reminds me of a math joke. A farmer sees six crows and shoots one, how many left? None, the shot scared the other five away.
Now, back to the parking lot. Six crack dealers surround the car with a driver in condition white and the doors unlocked. An argument ensues. One crack-head reaches inside the car. The driver, no CCW and fearing escalation, draws a legal length pocketknife and slices through the bozos arm tendons. Great idea right?
Well, now that the other five have seen the game rise in value and know that the driver has a knife, how long before they all draw their guns and hose down the car? Do you think the driver has enough time to drop the knife, throw the arm out of the window and put the car into gear? Not with those twenty gaping chest wounds...--OKG
 
Hmm... Yeah. The scenario I gave was greatly over-simplified and I'm sure there are a lot of ways to find faults with it. Also, I certainly don't want to sound like one of those "knife ninjas" and say that you can just pull out a knife and everything will suddenly be ok.

However, one point I was trying to make is that sometimes you just can't do much in a worst case scenario. For instance: in a tactical forum a while ago, someone asked something like, "If a guy sneaks up behind you and puts a blade to your throat, what do you do?" Plus, I also remember a thread where someone was like, "If a guy jumps out from behind some bushes and puts a gun to your chest and asks for your wallet, what do you do?" Of course, the answer to both of those questions has got to be - Nothing! There's really nothing you can do because it's already too late and you should have been more careful a long time ago. You're already in such a horribly bad situation that your chances of successfully fighting back are extremely low. The only thing you can do is just comply and hope for the best.

If there are six crack dealers standing around your car who are armed with guns, the situation is already so bad that we're not going to be able to find a clear solution. It's really a no-win situation. I would rather have a gun than a knife in that scenario, but it's still so bad that there's really no sense in theorizing about what the best course of action would be. So, I was just trying to look at a more favorable situation where a knife might be viable.

[This message has been edited by cerulean (edited 12-24-2000).]
 
Regarding knife carry in a car, I always keep a good folder clipped to my seatbelt against my right side. I do this in case I'm in an accident and need to cut myself free of a jammed seatbelt. Someone might say that I would probably be unconscious, etc., etc. Well, it's better to be prepared for the worst than not, and if I kept the knife on the seat, in an accident it would fly off and likely be lost or out of reach. With the knife clipped to the seatbelt, pressing against my side, flying off is less likely.

I know I'm preaching to the choir, but I agree you should have driven to another location to use the phone. Where I live, I have to stay aware no matter what area. Some horrific crimes can occur in very affluent areas, too. Once while eating my lunch in my car in a parking lot (in a familiar area but one that has plenty of gang activity) I noticed in my rear-view mirror a suspicious-looking guy near a pay phone looking around, then eyeing my car, crouching down, standing back up, etc. I started the car, backed out of the space (coming so close to him quickly that he jumped back onto the sidewalk in surprise), and shot on out of there.

Any time you even get a weird vibe, IMO it's best to get the heck out of there, or if that's impossible, be on total alert.
Jim
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Old Knife Guy:
<snip>Do you think the driver has enough time to drop the knife, throw the arm out of the window and put the car into gear? Not with those twenty gaping chest wounds...--OKG</font>
Click to expand...

Your right about what would probably happen, BUT I'd take issue with one thing - DON'T throw the arm out the window - drive away with it still in. So the perp gets dragged - It just makes SURE of the job. BTW The other perps probably won't react that quickly, as they are NOT expecting ANY defense, and they would be lucky to get a shot off before you got out of the parking lot, THEN they will empty their guns at you. I suspect that the average perp is a worse shot than the average cop, and probably can't hit the broad side of a barn in a panic situation - That's based on all the shooting stories you read in the papers - "40 shots fired, 2 innocent bystanders hit - Intended victim missed"


 
To cerulean: I agree, the 'knife ninja' thing just gives people a false sense of security, and could get a sincere young person (just learning) killed or maimed. I don't think people think about that when they enjoy an exchange in the forum. I don't know if you get 'Combat Handguns,' but there is (or was) a column using Paladin combat techniques--it's written by a guy named Rick Miller. I like the way he problem solves.
His group gets together like any other IPSC group, to shoot, pal around tell lies and compete. But they don't compete against each other, per se, they work against the course. One guy does something that will get him killed, another guy re-shoots the scenario and everyone provides an opinion. Each game is called by a goofy name like "Midnight at the 7-11," and the course and tactics always change. It keeps you sharp. One week Totally Judy has the idea that saves the day, the next week it's Ironhorse, but everyone becomes aware of real world problems, and their skills improve.
Like I say, I hate 'Rambo' threads. But Willie Boy wrote in because of something that really happened. THAT deserves some thought.--OKG
 
Hello,

Myself i would have first noticed the bunch standing there and then did a quick calculation on the ole Profiling calculator and drove on by and to another location.

I think the powers of observation and study
are far more of an assett than any gun or knife.

I carry a knife for Utility first and defence second.

As for a gun,,, yea they are nice to have,, 8-)

I think if these powers of observation and study and People/profiling were taught as a means to self defence and safty we would have less " CLOSE CALL`s "

Also, if the BG did happen to see the folder laying on your seat , for one you have just lost any chance you may have had at an "Element of surprise" if you would have been assaulted and usally it tends to escalate the violence level on the attackers part if he/they are dedicated.

my .02

Allen


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Allen Blade
Spokane,WA USA

" You can make great knives and sell a few, Or make Great AFFORDABLE knives and sell many"
WEB SITE : http://www.geocities.com/bladecutlery/blade_cutlery_site001.htm
 
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