Close to a Sebenza?

[knifetester]

That is just silly for a folding knife designed to cut things. That is where I would run a large chopping knife if I wanted to be able to do power cuts into knots and be able to take heavy rock impacts and cold chisel cut metals without danger of primary grind damage.

Yes, it is really overbuilt for any real cutting, at least utility type tasks. I imagine that Benchmaed would say it is not designed as a utility knife, as evidenced by it massive size, very thick blade, etc. They would probably say it is built for self defense. Since my idea of self defense is calling the police or running away from a threat, that is the elast of my needs.

I like the looks of some of Benchmades designs, and reprofiling them isn't really a problem, but I can't bring myself to whack that much money for a knife that has to see a belt grinder when there are so many out there that are decent NIB.

True, it sucks having to reprofile. However, some of the other BM knifes, 940, 921 and 705 and the RSK have come with very fine edges.

However, the problem with the Skirmish, from a utility standpoint, is that the primary grind is too obtues, so the whole knife will need to be reground. Had BM gone with a full height flat grind, like the Manix and Militray from Sal, this might have been a great knife.

If they wanted to keep the sex appeal of the saber grind (for some reason it sells), then they should have used a high hollow grind like the Sebenza.

Nice shot of the Axis, well used, I would puukko-grind the primary right back down and then micro bevel as required. I did this recently to the Fulcrum IID, still can't cut thick media of course, but handles wood work, ropes, and such really well now and still has the insane blade strength due to the absurd stock and primary grind.

I got that in '99 or 2000 or so after reading Joe Talmadge's excellent article on making the Axis perform. I don't use it every day but when I use it is for hard work, relative to a folder.

I have probably lost like 1/15-1/20" off the height of the grind due a number of full edge resets, so the edge bevel is now climbing into where the primary grind used to be. The recurve of the balde is also less prominent then when it was new, though I have really tried to preserve it as bit.

Mine is an early M2 model and the heat treat is excellent, probably around 62-63 RC. I am not sure if BM has brought down the hardness to ease in machining.

When I do a full edge reset I use my Edge Pro, and need to lap the course stone after just resetting the worn edge, as it scoops a bit.

Rather the puukko grind it, I will probably just add a flat relief grind at about 8 degreess, an edge bevel at 12 degrees and a microbevel at 15 degrees. In the alternative, I could just convex the edge, thinning it down along with the primary grind.

BTW, rust resistance has not been a problem at all with the 710. I don't oil it, just wash it off after use. The BT2 coating (or whatever BM calls it) has held up suprisingly well considering the sue it has been put to.

I would really like to see a Ritter RSK made from the same materials, G10 and M2. THat would be an ideal carry knife for me.

 

[samhain73]

Is it as thin as it looks in the pictures? I'm somewhat amazed because from what I've seen, Busse and SRKW mainly make sharpened prybars. It reminds me alot of my Al Mar S2K. I'm not sure about that hump in the handle towards the rear, though. I guess I'd have to handle one...

Mark

The Rat Trap is much thinner than the SERE2K. The S2K is much thicker in the body and liner than the R.T. The trap is closer to a Spyderco Military than anything else I've seen. And the "hump" in the back isn't bad, what got me was the hump in the middle. It just ate my middle fingers up. But other than grip, it seemed to be a slicing machine, on par with the Military.(Thus the comparison! )

 

[Westflorida]

I actually really like the Emerson Hd-7, does anyone have any experience with them?

The RRF by Combat Elite looks good, although that really sucks the basic version it seems you have to get that black coated blade. I cannot understand putting that on a s30v or 440c blade

 

[Megalobyte]

I have a Microtech SOCOM manual with an S90V clip point blade that is very lightweight, has an incredibly strong lock, and the F&F is very close to a Sebenza. They can be had for $250 or so if you can find one.

I was also impressed with the quality of the BM 630 when recently I got to play with one. The Kershaw Bump is also very well made, is anything but plain looking, and has the speed assist, $200 or less.

Buck Mayo 172 is excellent for the price, and now can be found for $150 or so.

Lots of good stuff to choose from, what is best for you is obviously a matter of taste and what fits your hand and needs, best.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

...self defense.

I would like to see an arguement based on this which actually requires this geometry. On large knives you need edges that thick to cut bone (when the cuts are not precisely controlled), but on smaller knives since the impact energy is so low the edge can be radically slimmed.

I will probably just add a flat relief grind at about 8 degreess, an edge bevel at 12 degrees and a microbevel at 15 degrees. In the alternative, I could just convex the edge, thinning it down along with the primary grind.

Yes, all of this would increase the cutting ability, mainly from all the cutting comparisions I have done, and the constant resharpening I have really started to appreciate minimal edge profiles. If your edge is < 1 mm wide resharpening it is trivial even if you completely reset the bevel. In contrast while a nice high flat/convex bevel will cut well, resharpening it after extensive wear takes a long time without power equipment.

I would really like to see a Ritter RSK made from the same materials, G10 and M2.

Yeah, I like the looks of the handle, blade and the overall design. Just get a deent edge thickness as well and go with a high and deep hollow grind for a utility cutter and a flat grind for a woods knife.

-Cliff

 

[hardheart]

I would like to see an arguement based on this which actually requires this geometry. On large knives you need edges that thick to cut bone (when the cuts are not precisely controlled), but on smaller knives since the impact energy is so low the edge can be radically slimmed.
-Cliff

I'm far from an expert, but perhaps the uncontrollable nature of a SD situation would make a thicker edge a better choice? The edge may impact on zippers, watches, button snaps, belt buckles, and objects in the surrounding environment.

 

[Charliegoodfellow]

I have had good luck with my Benchmade Skirmish. Very good fit and finish. Plus a sturdy framelock. Check it out.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

The edge may impact on zippers, watches, button snaps, belt buckles, and objects in the surrounding environment.

These are not enough to require the edge thickness on a knife that small, the impact energies are too low. I have done that type of cutting, with blades that small you won't blow out the edges. The only reason you need edges that thick would be if you wanted to use the knife like a cold chisel to cut hardened metals very aggressively.

-Cliff

 

[hardheart]

Hmm, maybe they didn't consider edge geometry at all. They wanted a folder of a certain size, had a certain thickness of S30V they wanted to use, and had certain grind lines they wanted for looks. They probably tweaked it for blade-handle fit or hole placement, but the profile/grinds/overall look were more important than how fine the edge was. I mean, my Skirmish shaves, and it looks good. I don't intend to use it as a work knife, and the design really doesn't seem good for utility anyway. So ease of sharpening and really fine cutting ability aren't as important to me, I have thinner, cheaper beaters with better geometry. Maybe that's all BM wanted to do with this knife; they really could have made it thinner, lighter and a better performer pretty easily. Maybe it's just their 'big' folder.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

That is an excellent point, if this is the case it would be nice if they made it clear to the consumer, which isn't likely for obvious reasons, as it is often recommended as a user.

-Cliff

 

[knifetester]

I have been doing a little bit of work with the Benchmade 635 Mini-Skirmish, and feel that it is a much better knife for my uses than the full size Skirmish.

I think the 635 is a real contender for a Sebeza Subsitiute, they are in the same class in my opinion.

The 635 is much more cutting performance oriented than its bigger brother.

It is not as thinly ground as the Sebenza, but it is a more coherent design. The blade strength is a nice match for the lock strength. Fit and finish is excellent. Opening is super smooth. Lock up is excellent.

Though it is a Saber grind, given the width of the blade (~1.25") and the grind height (about 3/4") it works out well. The grinds are even and primary grind is decently acute, down to just a hair under .020" behind the edge. Edge bevels are ~.035" high, pretty even through the grind. A far improvement from the full size Skirmish for utility use.

Its cutting performance reminds me of the "fugly" Grecko mutation pictured above it.

The opening hole is not as big as on the full size, somewhat imparing opening, rather like the Calypso compared to the Military in Spydie terms.

It carries far easier than the full size Skirmish.

I have added this knife to my EDC carry, along with an opinel for fine cutting and a Victorinox Spirit for non-knife stuff. After a couple months I should have some more definite conclusions. Since this role is usually filled by an M2 Axis (710 or 730) it has some big shoes to fill.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

The grinds are even and primary grind is decently acute, down to just a hair under .020" behind the edge.

This is actually thinner than both the small and large Sebenza, the curve may be deeper though. My small Sebenza is actually way deeper than normal so I can't compare but it might be useful to ask Reeve what is the expected thickness at 1/8" back from the edge and compare.

Of course there is no problem is getting the primary grind deepened if desired, but this would seem to me to be an odd choice for a knife of that overall design anyway, which I think you noted. It looks more of a harder working knife given the blade stock and handle, and putting a feather thin edge on it is a bit out of place.

-Cliff

 

[knifetester]

I would say the 635 and Sebbie are similar in regads to behind the edge thickness. I do not have one now, but I have EDC a Sebbie for years, and have used the large (Ref and Classic), small and Flat grind.

The big difference is that the Sebbie, being decently deep hollow grind stays thin, and the flat saber grind of the 635 starts to thicken much faster as you climb the primary grind.

The 635 seems to be a solid working piece, a cohesive design for a utility knife. For higher cutting performance, the Opinel pretty much sets the standard. For that type of cutting I don't need a strong lock, or usually a lock at all.

 

[spyken]

did you say the sebbie is a little boring? well, here my cosmic storm mini skirmish to add a little colour...

 

[Boozoo Chavis]

Bradley Alias I-3.5" S30V Modified Spearpoint Blade. Phosphorous bronze bushings. Ti Frame. The Bradley has a much more ergonomic handle and feels much better in the hand than a Sebenza. Around $250 bucks.

 

[puukkoman]

benchmade made a framelock a while back (now discontinued)... I forget what it was called, but you'll probably find one on the web after some searching.

EDIT: I remember, it's called the Pinnacle. Very similar to a sebbie in appearance. I'd love to get one, but I'm short on funds... check this link, there's one for sale on this site:
http://www.csmetall-werkes.com/Knives.htm

Peace.

 

[knifetester]

The 635 is an improvement over the 750. Much better fit and finish. Pontiaker does a great 750 refit.