Closing my thread

Jerry, the weapons reviews can be posted to this forum (I don't think anyone will mind them since they are pretty limited), but I feel it would be best if an effort was made for the knife reviews to go to the Knife Review forum.

Once the review is posted, there, feel free to discuss use, techniques, customization, live application, combat drills, etc here since that's focusing in on the primary objective of this forum.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Spark, IMHO that is an amazingly bad decision. You have now seperated the input info on a knife from the discussion of its merits and application to FMA.

Donna: "it wasn't the one review but the steady stream of them that looked highly suspect"

It happens that I just discovered BladeForums and its members about 5 months ago, and the FCA Forum even more recently. From the dialogues on here, I linked up with 2 or 3 FMA's whom I thought were focussed on blades of the style and performance I produced. In that time, I created 3 entirely new designs to the specifications and requirements they suggested. It was those 3 blades which were reviewed here, blades that were produced to the specific needs of the FMA community and none other. Please note, there is no sharpened back edge on these blades as is favored by the bowie fighters. If that seems like a "steady stream", it is the result of being everything I have focussed on in the few short months available to me.

I suppose if I were less prolific, this would not have been an issue, or perhaps the moderator would have found another reason to assert her bias for certain other makers (three of whom she plugged once again in just this thread). That there are other makers who make such weapons for FMA is irrelevant to the determination of those weapons' utlity and quality as applied specifically to FMA. That other makers have had their blades referenced and reviewed on here (most frequently by the moderator herself from recent history) over a longer and less concentrated period of time can be largely attributed to the simple fact that they have been known to the FMA and BladeForums community longer than I have.

Since the primary weapon of FMA is the knife (or sword), it is incomprehensible that you would want to remove evaluations of these weapons from this forum while retaining evaluations of lesser weapons.

Furthermore,

Donna: "Allen Blade right now is making a claw ring. The ring is awesome, it will have a small linx style claw that will add something extra to parry's and it is an optimum Silat and grappling tool."

Is this not a review in just the same sense that you have banished from this forum? Even though it is blatantly subjective and lacks any test data, it is entirely promotional in its content. Will these remarks also be banned from this forum? Or will it be just those which are well and enthusiastically written about the blades of a maker whom the moderator doesn't favor? Or is the moderator alone permitted to speak highly of certain knives and makers?

If so, I urge you to consider establishing a seperate forum, dedicated to the full range of weaponry available to FMA. A forum wherein we may discuss candidly and openly the needs, designs, and performance of FMA weapons, without the confusing and distracting inputs of the wood chopping and rope cutting crowd.

Finally and just for the record. The sword in question was also reviewed on the other forum. In a reply to the moderator, I informed him and all on that forum that the sword is not presently for sale, pending further design changes as were recommended in this review. Advertising is normally done for the purpose of selling a product. This product is not for sale, and the evidence was offered in that other venue the same day this review appeared here and before the thread was locked. Check it out.

http://www.knifeforums.com/ubb/Forum52/HTML/000168.html



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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com

[This message has been edited by GaKnife (edited 03-04-2000).]
 
Jerry makes some good points here.

I have been advocating for some time that we need real world testing of different catagories of blades by experts in their use- eg., fighting blades by knife combative experts, wilderness survival/heavy utility blades by wilderness survival experts, kitchen blades by chefs, and so on- and open feedback and discussion with the makers of blades in each catagory so that they can understand better the needs of the people who will be using their blades, and further their art. And, so that prospective buyers can get useful information on how a particular blades performs in the sorts of tasks to which they will be subjecting it to. This all makes perfect sense right? And it is particularly important, IMO, in the area of fighting/tactical blades, where a blade failure could cost you your life.

I think that a knife maker-blade fighter forum to openly discuss needs, new designs, performance, testing parameters, and so on would go a long way towards furthering the art and science of fighting blades.

Mario

------------------
Gaucho

Tuvo muy mala suerte...se callo en mi cuchillo.


 
Oops... Think I'll wade in. I personally like to read reviews of blades in this forum, especially if they are related to Martial Blade Craft. I read some of the reviews over at the Review and frankly skip over some (slot?) BECAUSE I think they don't really fit into my interest area and my time is not unlimited. If a review is done here in FMA, I would definitely read it because FMA is one of my strong interests and has actually led me into an interest in blades in general.

It's true any knife can cut but some knives are more purpose driven for martial blade craft. When I first heard Don mentioned Jerry to me over six months ago my interest perked up because I respect Don as a MA'er. When I read Mario's review, I actually went ahead and contacted Jerry which then lead to my order. Frankly, when I read Donna mentioning somebody, I pay attention to that too because I respect Donna. These reviews can be construed as advertising but the reality is that I don't jump on board because Joe Smoe said such and such knife/maker is good. I am more likely to be interested when the reviewer is someone I respect/trust.

Jerry, I read Spark saying he thinks posting reviews in the Review forum is the way to go. But, he also said it is fine to do it here.

I personally think the issue is decided and we should all move on. I know and have trained with both Mario and Donna. Don't let this get between you. Frankly, I think you two would get along in person because you are BOTH killers at heart. Just kidding...
wink.gif


sing

AKTI #A000356
 
Jerry,
You bring out some really good points. First my bringing up other makers is to set the record straight that there are other makers catering to the FMA community by what they are making or have made. Also the FMA community itself is divided on what they choose to own because it all boils down to personal preferance. If you were to poll this forum you would find that out. You might want to for the heck of it, run a poll asking what the folks here are looking for in a knife.

I can also see your point about your having made knives/swords geared for the FMA community and that you wanted to see them reviewed. If there were differant folks doing the reviews I wouldn't have thought twice. What looked suspect to me was the review came from the same person and there was a steady stream of them from the same person. To see what I am talking about just do a search.

I would see what Spark would suggest here because reviews really do belong in the review forum. Threads that tell about you personally and what you are trying to do for the FMA community will be very welcome. You might also want to ask feedback from the practicioners and poll those who have purchased your knives.

I think that these are creative ways to learn your market here and to get yourself known among them.

As some know I used to be an advocate of a certain person's knives. This maker had even developed a sort of cult following of those who advocated his knives. I read the test results, the reviews that were done by others and I was SOLD that I had a great FMA superknife. I purchased four or five of his knives. That is until all the knives that I had from this maker went dull via air. Today I only own one as I sold them all. So today I am much more of a skeptic. If you were to send your knife to Cliff Stamp or even to Mike Turber to let him do a comparison test of your knife or sword against others and yours comes out on top that will speak volumes, even to this skeptic.


Yes, I will review tapes I like, etc. but my threads are not contiuous reviews of one instructor, one maker etc. My topics are varied. Part of my job here is to keep this board non-political. I have actually not even posted yet about my own new knife but when I do I will post it in the reviews forum.

Gaucho,
You bring out a really good point about knife fighters testing fighting knives. This might be a great topic for the reviews forum too. Also I would be interested in Cliff Stamp's feedback on this. You can even poll this forum to see what tests the fighters here would like to see performed.

 
Wow!

Turn my back for a day or two, and look what happens. I'm certainly not a moderator of this forum, but I do know two of the three major players involved.

I don't think that Donna meant no makers would be mentioned, I just think that the exact compromise hasn't been worked out yet. (I know, nobody asked me what I thought, but I'm ornery enough to tell y'all anyway.)

As one who ALSO has written several reviews of Jerry's knives, I'm glad to see that the reviews may continue. For those who are interested, please refine your search, and you'll find that I've written at least as many reviews as Gaucho has. (I've written reviews both under my current sig and my last sig "Zog" which I changed in December. Don Rearic has also expressed his amazed enthusiasm for Jerry's blades.)

Many makers have a high profile, and a cult following, and are plugged to pieces. Jerry has neither. But those of us who actually own his knives are die-hard fans (we're a small but vocal group so far). Hence my relief that y'all are trying to reach an understanding.

I would hate for a talented maker to get left in the cold because some feelings were innocently hurt.

Matt

------------------
Waxes Eloquent, Leader of the Terrible Ironic Horde and Mighty Brain Spewer
Waxy's Custom Concealex Page
Waxy's Custom Shirts for Concealed Carry Page


[This message has been edited by Waxes Eloquent (edited 03-04-2000).]
 
[Alright, I've had a really bad week, and this thread is really starting to piss me off. I'm getting the distinct impression that a few people are going out of their way to needle me or push my limits, and this just happens to be the wrong time to do so.]

No offense, but some of you folks need to stop being so uptight. I'm not creating a seperate forum for FMA weapons right now, you can discuss them right here. Neither am I going to create a Chinese sword, or shuriken forum or anything else like that, because overspecialization / compartmentalization leads to a lack of communication.

I don't want to hear any naysaying about how you aren't going to be well served by posting knife reviews to the Knife Review forum. That's complete BS and a defeatist attitude. I don't see Cliff Stamp's reviews or anyone else's suffering because they are there, so neither should yours. Knife Reviews should be in a centralized place so that the most people can see them. If you have something you want to discuss pursuant to the review, what's there stopping you from making a new thread here and referencing the other?

As I said before, you can feel free to link to them from here, but I want the knife reviews in the Knife Reviews forum. I'll leave it up to the forum moderators and members to be self-policing in that regard, if it doesn't happen, I want to know why. I shouldn't have to be stepping in here anymore about this.

Practical application of the blade in real life or during drills are one thing. Full blown reviews are another. You should be able to make the distinction for yourself. Be responsible for your own actions, and work around this perceived "restriction".

You want to speak highly of a knife? Hey, no problem. You want to write a full review of it? Put it in the right forum already. Like I said earlier, you never know who else you might interest in FMA.

Again, this is not directed towards anyone in particular, but I'm getting sick of people claiming "bias" and "favoritism" or "persecution" or censorship everytime something doesn't go 100% their way and these days I've got an extremely low tolerance for whining. Everything is getting blown out of proportion, and I've had about enough of it.

MA people tend to be overly sensitive about their ego's and I'm not going to make special allowances here just because people don't want to follow the same rules I've set for everyone.

So stop making a big deal out of this already and lets move on with FMA discussion. Take a step back, take a few deep breaths, and realize that this is a molehill, not a mountain. Relax already.

[/VENT]

Spark

------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Originally posted by sing:
I personally think the issue is decided and we should all move on. I know and have trained with both Mario and Donna. Don't let this get between you. Frankly, I think you two would get along in person because you are BOTH killers at heart. Just kidding...
wink.gif


Only when they use thrusts 5 or 6
biggrin.gif
- am I learning, Mario?


student

[This message has been edited by student (edited 03-04-2000).]
 
It was my impression that Gaucho posted in the knife reviews to share Jerry's blades with those who do read reviews, and to post here for the benefit of FMA'ers with the intent that you have the rope cutters in one side and the fighters in this side ofthe fence.. both have two different views on the subject, and should not be mixed IMOHO.

True the reviews of Jerry's knives are all done by his 'fans' but it is to my knowledge that Jerry intends his blades to be tested by MA'ers and not the standard crew (no offense intended at all).

Matt and Mario get nothing out of the tests and I think it was a good call to post this here in the FMA forum. because 1 what we have in this forum are people who actually use the knives and 2 many people don't have the time to hop onto many other forums.

We can move on and forget things sure.. I hate flame wars and it took me a long while to decide to write this short note..

...and the main reason I wrote it instead of walking away shrugging as I always do is that to me there is a lingering 'hint' that Jerry amasses a select group of cultists which he pushes to do reviews of his knives. This is far from the case.

I have a belief that Jerry is not afraid of openly admitting his shortcomings to those who ask and I am sure he would challenge his blades to any other competent MArtist who would like to test his works.

oh yeah here is the token smiley
smile.gif
...



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<A HREF="http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html
</A> If you play with love you will be heartbroken; if you play with knives you will [bleed]


 
I have deliberately not posted on this to see how it would develop.

I understand Spark not wanting this to be a hodgepodge of different things in here, this Forum.

I delayed my response...however, Dave Fulton and Fenris had it dead-on, early on.

I don't quite understand what good it does to put a review of a fighting knife "over there" when one cat does not even like them and favors an ASP Baton over edged weapons and the other Dude digs with swords.

This would be pretty funny if it were not so sad.

I put a couple of reviews in here, one of them was on the Benchmade Bali-Song that is coming up...blades that are really geared to the people in this Forum.

James Piorek makes a lot of Japanese style blades with a modern flair, and he makes others that are specifically suited to FMA People...

Jerry was known for wonderful hunting knives and has crossed over, he has poured his heart and soul in it...developing incredibly fighters...small, medium, large, extra large and even swords...

The general idea, in my mind of using this Forum to review these weapons is, BladeForums has become so vast that people interested in martial arts and knives, may not be interested enough in all the knives listed in the review Forum, and not seeing anything in there that really interests them, ignore it and concentrate their online time elsewhere...see the logic?

Please...I did not peeeeeeeee...so don't be pissed off.

Is there a picture of that Garand barrel cut in half by a "real" Kris? I would love to see it. The same was said of Katana in WW2...I would like to document both.
 
On a different note.. I am not sure about the Kriss but the 'Bearing' Viente Nuebe that can penetrate a Piso without damage to the tip (I have yet to see it go completely through) is brought about NOT by heat rteating or superior materials it is all design.

The blade is a drop point utility shape which is (I am not kidding) ground from just under 1/4 inch steel the knife is heavy and thick, and is no surprise to make short work of that Piso
smile.gif


A maker said it himself when I went to Batanggas that they do make it for quantity and not quality. Filipino Balisongs are thaditionally throw away weapons.

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<A HREF="http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html
</A> If you play with love you will be heartbroken; if you play with knives you will [bleed]


 
I'd just like to say that I find Mario (Gaucho) to be a knowledgeable, generous individual, always ready to write lenghty posts (not only reviews) and share as much information as possible with his fellow forumites.

I still don't know him personally, but I'm sure he's a stand-up guy with no hidden agenda.

Regards,

Leo Daher

------------------
"Though the meek shall inherit the Earth, they won't keep it past Saturday night..."
 
OK Guess who is here to save the day and stop the bull ****
wink.gif


First, I apologize for not emailing the parties in question ahead of this post but I feel that I would rather kill 3 or more birds with one stone.

Here is what IS and what is NOT acceptable in this forum.

If you have a review of any knife I would appreciate it if you would post it in the review section, regardless of what you are reviewing.

Reason? Simple, you could get more interest in FMA and that sword by Jerry looks really damn SWEET!

If you have a review, that is very limited in scope, and we have a forum in which the review would be greatly appreciated, then by all means post the review in BOTH places.

I read the review in question and I, like many others, can not see it as being commercial. I did not read every post mentioned but I think that this can be a "From this day forward" rule.

If the posts become commercial, then I will back Donna should she decide to close them.

What is commercial?
Any post that is made by any party that clearly indicates the "How much and Where to buy" of any product. The problem here is that we are talking about a custom maker. So even if the "How much" is not mentioned, the "Where to buy" is very clear.

Most custom makers need all the help they can get. A good or glowing review can sometimes be misunderstood. Look at my reviews of Busse as an example. No matter what I said, people still thought that I was giving him glowing reviews because I had a financial interest in them. The fact was that Busse's knives stomped everyone else's collective ass.

Maybe Gaucho is in a similar predicament. Maybe someone else needs to send him some knives to review. He certainly has good grammar skills (Much better than mine
smile.gif
)

When does this rule not apply?
When a member asks either or both questions after the initial review, or when there is an obvious deal out there that would be of interest to our readers here.

Example: A "Leatherman Waves for $27!" post made by a member that is not in any way connected to the party selling the product. We have had several of these recently in the General Forum.

With the above in mind I am going to reopen the thread in question, and I will ask that Gaucho duplicate the thread in the review section and give those guys over there a chance to see the sword in question. In fact post all of your previous reviews over there Gaucho.

Here is a link to Gaucho's feelings about this thread. Sometimes when you throw a boomarang, it will come back and hit you on the head. http://www.gaucho.com/top.html

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
Show Your Support -Visit Our Sponsors - Click On The Banners!

[This message has been edited by Mike Turber (edited 03-05-2000).]
 
Gaucho did post another copy of that review in the Reviews and Testing forum, and as far as I can recall he's done the same with all his reviews.

I still think it's better to post reviews in that forum and post links to them in other forums rather than duplicating posts. It's not worth a big argument about, of course; it doesn't make a lot of difference.... But for what it's worth, I think in general whenever a post needs to be seen by the people in more than one forum the best way is to post it in one forum and post links to it in the other(s). Usually I'd like to see all replies to the post in that thread rather than the link thread(s) but in some cases a reply might be of no interest to people who don't read the forum a link is in, so it can go there.

What I'd like to avoid is having duplicate threads in different forums all over the net and make it necessary for anyone who's really interested to keep following wormholes all around the mulberry bush to see the whole discussion. That's even worse if the wormholes aren't posted; then even if people are willing to take the trouble to go all over they won't know about the other threads.

Offhand I can think of about ... nine or ten forums for a sword review. (I know I could think of more if I thought another minute or two.) If it's posted in only one forum, anybody who doesn't read that forum will miss it. If copies are posted in all the appropriate forums, replies will be missed by everyone who doesn't read that forum. My way, if the review is posted in one forum and links are posted in the others -- everybody gets to see the review and everybody gets to see the whole discussion -- nobody misses out. And nobody has to go all around the mulberry bush to see it all, either, just follow one link from whatever forum you see it in first.

-Cougar :{)
All around the mulberry bush
The monkey chased the weasel ...
 
Mike,

Thank you so much for looking into this as well and reopenning my thread. And also for setting ground rules "from this day forward".

The review is already posted in the Knife Review Forum- I posted in both forums right at the beginning.

As far as that Gaucho.com site, was that a joke? That site has absolutely nothing to do with me. I don't even have the right software to view it. In fact, I would have to download some program for over 12 minutes just to browse it correctly.

Anyhow, I hope that we are done with this now once and for all. All I wanted to do was update everyone on the progress of Jerry's new A-2 Espada prototype, which- when perfected- I believe will be a boon to F/IMA Espada y Daga afficionados like myself.

I asked for imput on several different knife and sword forums, and put the Espada through every serious test that I could find and it not only survived, but passed with flying colors. Which actually surprised me a little, as I've said before, since this was his first effort at making such a sword. But, I believe, based on my results- and my twenty years experience in one type of sword work or another- that the Espada could be even better. It could safely be lighter and faster.

Jerry is therefore going to grind another one in 3/16th" A-2 stock and we will see if I'm right. He is also looking into the feasability of using other steels- like CPM-3V- with even higher impact resitance and edge wear values than A-2, to see if an even lighter, faster, yet fully combat worthy Espada is possible.

I will let you all know what I find- good and bad.

As far as testing for other makers is concerned, I again make that offer. Jerry and I do not have an exclusive agreement. In fact we have no agreement of any kind other than that we both share the same goal of furthering the blade fighting arts by creating the best weapons possible.

Jerry Hossom has the balls to put his reputation on the line by allowing myself and others to independantly test and then publicly review his knives for all the world to see. He has never seen one of my reviews before it is posted- feedback yes, Jason and I, just like Don and Matt and the other MA's that he works with, give him that all the way along- and he has never asked me to change anything that I've written. He has readily accepted criticism and new ideas and put his money where his mouth is over and over again, ordering new steels and making very expense prototypes for us to test differences in handle shapes, blade shapes, guards, and so on- all to create better fighting blades. Yes, one may argue that a fighting knife is a very individual thing, but all of us players know a real good knife when we play with one, and everyone that has had an opportunity to play with Jerry's blades- from World Class to Tyro- has been blown away by what's coming out of his shop. He should be commended for his efforts, for his commitment to us, the end users.

If other makers out there want to make the same commitment, we are out here ready to help- even privately at first if that is what you want. If any of you makers want to know my credentials for doing this type of testing, I will be happy to provide details privately. But I will say here that I have been training continuously- empty hands and weapons- since age 6, formally(outside the family) since age 10, in several different arts. That's thirty four years this July. I believe that anyone who has trained with me, empty hands, sticks, blades, or whatever, will attest to the fact that I'm a serious player. Anyone who is unsure- or simply wants to learn what we know- I've offered before, and I'll offer again now, you have an open invitation to contact me and come train with us at EEMD and see for yourself.

End of Story.

Let's get back to discussing the good stuff
smile.gif
.

Mario



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Gaucho

Tuvo muy mala suerte...se callo en mi cuchillo.




[This message has been edited by Gaucho (edited 03-05-2000).]
 
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