Clothing?

M

Michael Bennett

Joined
Mar 2, 1999
Messages
666
I've always been told that in certain envorinments, "cotton kills."

So what clothing should be worn in woodland/hill or low mountain terrain, in winter, with temperatures just over freezing?

I've read that the order goes something like polypropylene or silk undergarments, then fleece or wool, then GoreTex outer shell.

What do you folks recommend?

Mike
 
Hi Michael Bennett,

You are correct... there are some other options that could be used in each layer, but those work great.

Clothes should be worn loose and layered (trapped dead air is what insulates us and keeps us warm (cool also)).

Layer 1: Wicks moisture away from the body. Lots of people use cotton and this is a fatal error becouse cotton looses all of its insulative qualities when we. I use polypro.

Layer 2: Insulation layer. the synthetics like holifill (sp), polygard, are a few other options to the ones you posted. This layer should be able to maintain its insulation quality even when wet. One problem with wool (I like wool) is that when compared to the synthetics--pound for pound (wieght you carry)--it has less insulative value.

Layer 3: Protection from the wind and rain. Gore-tex is a safe bet. However, they are coming out with a lot of new materials that seem to work well. Allows moisture to escape while keeping you dry.
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Thus each layer of this 3 layer set up has insulative qualities (dead air is trapped between the individual fibers of the each garment). This combined with the insulation created by the dead air space between each layer is the key to staying warm and dry.

This is only one aspect of the COLDER acronym about how to take care of your clothing.
__________________________________

Really...This time I mean it when I say I'm leaving...

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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
All of the above is good information. Wool will provide good insulation even when wet, unlike some insulators. I always carry a wool blanket, tumpline fasion, that can be used as a blanket, or cloak withy the use of a large safety pin or blanket pin.
 
"Cotton kills" because once it's wet, it doesn't insulate and it is slow to dry. Polyester [polypro and all its proprietary variants] will insulate when wet, dries more easily and is generally hydrophobic. But the darn stuff doesn't breathe very well, depending on the construction. Also, the damn stuff melts or worse, burns, near a flame. Wool insulates when wet, doesn't melt but is slow to dry. Remember, in real cold it isn't adequate insulation. Arctic explorers who piled on wool layers died.
I've never been entirely satified with any first/underlayer except for silk. But that stuff isn't very tough.
My favorite insulating layer under heavy use is Primaloft. Insulates when wet, breathes pretty well and will dry reasonably well. It doesn't take well to abrasion.
I do like goretex as an outerlayer.
Has anyone had experience with the cotton weave called "ventile"? I just acquired a pair of ventile pants and the stuff certainly is water resistant, but I wonder how it will behave when soaked or put thru its paces in heavy use?


[This message has been edited by HJK (edited 06 December 1999).]

[This message has been edited by HJK (edited 06 December 1999).]
 
Not only does cotton clothing not insulate you when it's wet, it will lower your body temperature through evaporative cooling. The next time you're in the desert southwest, check out the material that is used to construct those white cloth water bags that are so common down there (cotton).

db
 
HI Folks,

I thought I'd add this little bit to the discussion about clothing because it is important science.

The "Clo" and the "Tog" are defined in J.R. Mather's "Climatology: Fundamentals and Applications" [1974] as follows: "units measuring the thermal insulation value of clothing. The clo defines the insulation value of clothing that would allow a heat flow of 1 kg cal m^-2 with a temperature gradient across the fabric of 0.16 degrees C. An ordinary wool business suit (3 pc) has an insulation value of approximately 1 clo. The Tog also describes the thermal resistance of clothing; 1 Tog = 0.645 clo and is equivalent in insulation to light summer clothing."

The military BDU outfit in the poly/cotton blend has a clo rating of .89 . A pair of jeans with a t shirt and long sleeve cotton shirt is about .71 clo. There is a complete discussion of clo values in a variety of publications. My point is that a mans wool suit is a better form of protection than a pair of Jeans, t shirt and heavy cotton overshirt.

If cold comfort is an issue the thermal comfort scale for clothing created by Cornell University Research is useful.

Clothing insulation is measured in Clo units (Icl)
1 clo = 0.155 m2 ¡C/W
Lowest clo value is 0 (naked body)
Highest practical clo value = 4 clo (Eskimo clothing, fur pants, coat, hood, gloves etc.)
Summer clothing ~ 0.6 clo
Winter clothing ~ 1 clo
Icl ~ 0.15 x weight of clothes in lbs.
10 lbs of clothing ~ 1.5 clo

Fabric durability is important for wilderness clothing. With the help of the materials lab at my University and the library, I have investigated wool and cotton clothing with an eye to the following issues. Tension, Open-Hole Tension, Compression, Open-Hole Compression, In-Plane Shear, Filled-Hole Tension, Interlaminar Tension and Interlaminar Shear. In every case wool was tougher and more resilent than cotton..... No wonder wool is the choice of experienced outdoors folk everywhere.

Newer materials have improved on cotton in a number of areas. The afore mentioned BDU's shed water better than cotton, are tighter and thus resist wind chill better and finally, dry nearly three times faster than cotton of the same weight when they are wet. They are still cold when wet.

The biggest mistake folks make with cotton pants is believing that because they are fine in warm weather and even cold dry weather, they are fine for everything. Jeans are allowed on summer excursions run by many schools. Sadly Outward Bound has had hypothermia fatalities among it's cotton pants wearers.

Ron




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Learn Life Extension at:

http://www.survival.com ]
 
Ron has scientifically told my why all my hunting clothes are wool or wool combos. EVEN my UNDERWEAR!
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Yes I have a set of wool crossed with something thermal underwear. I usually wear wool socks, pants shirt and sweater. Wool cross gloves, mittens and balaclavas. Wool remnants sewn into scarves round out my cold weather apparel, with one exception.

I bought a good jacket a few years ago about a size and a half too BIG. But it has turned out to be a blessing. I can layer my wool underneath and stay more than "functional" at -20 F when sitting on a stand waiting for Mr. Whitetail to walk by.

Yes, hunting is why I "really" got big into survival!
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Plainsman :)
primitiveguy@hotmail.com


 
Not all cotton is created equal. Ventile is wind- and almost waterproof. But the latter only after it's gotten wet, but it absorbs only a little water.

I like it: Except for two things: Price and durability. It wears very quickly, so even if it did great service during <A title="From my photo album" HREF="http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Coast/4807/travels/svalbard/svalbard.html">my trip to Svalbard</A>, where I used it interchangeably with gore-tex and is softer and quiter than laminated fabrics, I'm not in the market for more.

Good polyester/cotton blends are almost as good, cheaper and more durable.

Wool is interesting, for several reasons, for example, The fibres curl more the more moisture they absorb, and thus become more isolating.
And it can absorb up to 35% without feeling wet (cotton and linen 16%, nylon, polyester and acryl 8%).
Think also about the reverse of evaporative cooling: When the wool absorbs moisture, like when you go out in the cold and wet, it gives off heat.

The reason for the good water absorbing properties is that wool doesn't do it like syntetic fibres, by capillary action, but by incorporating the water vapour in the structural material, kreatin, itself. Otherwise, the surface of the fibres is totally waterproof.
Wool is also designed keep clean naturally, so you don't have to wash it like you do with syntetics.

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Urban Fredriksson
www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/

"Smooth and serrated blades cut in two entirely different fashions."
- The Teeth of the Tyrannosaurs, Scientific American, Sep 1999


 
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