CM-154 v. AUS8

Status
Not open for further replies.
I

IGotStabbed

Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
849
For the metallurgy experts out there! Which steel is better, CM-154 or AUS8? What are the characteristics of each?

Thanks!
 
Don't quote me on this, but I believe that AUS8 is a softer steel which rusts easier, it should be easier to sharpen, but will hole an edge for less time. 154cm does not have the best rust resistance but it is better than AUS8's in my experience. THis may not go for all knives, but looking at my griptilian in 154cm you can see lighter and darker lines in the steel which gives it a striped appearence, whereas a cold steel knife I have in aus8 is more uniform, having a consistant silver all over. Most people consider 154cm to be the better steel, but for someone with limited sharpening skill, the aus8 might be a better choice. Also knives in aus8 are usually much cheaper than their 154cm counterparts.

Most manufacturer's websites will have a chart showing what each steel contains, and what those elements do for the knife.
 
IGotStabbed said:
For the metallurgy experts out there! Which steel is better, CM-154 or AUS8? What are the characteristics of each?
Click to expand...
From Joe Tamade's Knife Steel FAQ:

AUS-6 - AUS-8 - AUS-10 (aka 6A 8A 10A) Japanese stainless steels, roughly comparable to 440A (AUS-6, .65% carbon) and 440B (AUS-8, .75% carbon) and 440C (AUS-10, 1.1% carbon). AUS-6 is used by Al Mar. Cold Steel's use of AUS-8 has made it pretty popular, as heat treated by CS it won't hold an edge like ATS-34, but is a bit softer and may be a bit tougher. AUS-10 has roughly the same carbon content as 440C but with slightly less chromium, so it should be a bit less rust resistant but perhaps a bit tougher than 440C. All 3 steels have some vanadium added (which the 440 series lacks), which will improve wear resistance.
Click to expand...

ATS-34 - 154-CM The hottest high-end stainless right now. 154-CM is the original American version, but for a long time was not manufactured to the high quality standards knifemakers expect, and so is not used often anymore. Late-breaking news is that high-quality 154-CM may again be available. ATS-34 is a Hitachi product that is very, very similar to 154-CM, and is the premier high quality stainless. Normally hardened to around 60 Rc, it holds an edge very well and is tough enough even at that high hardness. Not quite as rust resistant as the 400 series above. Many custom makers use ATS-34, and Spyderco (in their high-end knives) and Benchmade are among the production companies that use it.
Click to expand...
 
Ok thanks! I am looking at the SOG Tac knife which is a hefty $100, but it uses AUS8. Anyone have experience with SOG's AUS8 steel?
 
154CM is better than AUS8

CPM154 is even better.

AUS8 is a vanadium steel, so it will take a very fine scary sharp edge. But it just isn't going to hold it very long. VG10 on the other hand, also a vanadium Japanese steel, will take a fine edge but also has edge retention that is comparable and even a little better than 154CM.

IGotStabbed said:
Ok thanks! I am looking at the SOG Tac knife which is a hefty $100, but it uses AUS8. Anyone have experience with SOG's AUS8 steel?
Click to expand...

I would never drop $100 on a knife that only comes with AUS8. Nothing against SOG or AUS8 but for that price they should be providing a higher end steel.
 
My aus8 subcom is easy to get shaving sharp but doesn't last long. my minigrip won't get as sharp, but the edge holds longer
 
KnifeTurtle said:
Don't quote me on this, but I believe that AUS8 is a softer steel which rusts easier, it should be easier to sharpen, but will hole an edge for less time. 154cm does not have the best rust resistance but it is better than AUS8's in my experience. THis may not go for all knives, but looking at my griptilian in 154cm you can see lighter and darker lines in the steel which gives it a striped appearence, whereas a cold steel knife I have in aus8 is more uniform, having a consistant silver all over. Most people consider 154cm to be the better steel, but for someone with limited sharpening skill, the aus8 might be a better choice. Also knives in aus8 are usually much cheaper than their 154cm counterparts.

Most manufacturer's websites will have a chart showing what each steel contains, and what those elements do for the knife.
Click to expand...

Not True. both 154CM and AUS8 can be heat treated to about 61 HRC.
It is unusual to find AUS8 blades that hard, but that is a function of the heat treat and the blade manufacturer, not of the alloy itself.

IGotStabbed said:
For the metallurgy experts out there! Which steel is better, CM-154 or AUS8? What are the characteristics of each?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Neither is better. Each is superior in certain characteristics.

AUS8 lacks the chromium carbides found in 154CM. This means that AUS8 is easier to sharpen, will take a fine edge more easily with less exotic sharpening equipment and less effort. It also means that 154CM will be more wear resistant, which, in certain types of cutting, will result in better edge retention. In other types of cutting, the lack of carbides in the AUS8 will cause it to hold a razor edge longer than 154CM.

I have very good sharpening equipment and I prefer the wear resistance provided by 154CM. But AUS8 is still an excellent blade alloy. Even in manila rope cutting tests, it has better edge retention than 440A or 420HC (And manila rope cutting favors alloys with better wear resistance.)
 
AUS 8 reminds me of 420HC in that there are really great knives and also moderately crap knives made from them. Buck makes some very good knives from 420HC, and there are a couple of makers (Moki, who makes the Beretta fixed blades comes to mind) doing really quality stuff in AUS8.

I think AUS 8 is one of those steels where the care taken by the manufacturer makes a bigger difference in the outcome than most. Like it's right on the edge of good performance but needs really deliberate handling to bring it over the line.
 
Listen to knarfeng, he's right--both steels are great. While in most cases I'd go with 154CM, I still love AUS8 because it gets super sharp real easily, probably cuz of the vanadium in it (something which 154CM doesn't have I might add). I can also tell you that SOG's AUS8 is top-notch. In fact, I EDC'd a SOG Trident for a long time and liked it so much I bought another one! Whichever steel you choose you will not be disappointed. Good luck!

Here's a pic of the Tridents. The tigerstripe version was my EDC for a while and has been sharpened many times as you can probably tell. Still an awesome knife and can slice with the best of 'em.


tridents.jpg
 
Last edited:
A good quality maker can make an outstanding blade from both, and a cheesy numbnuts can ruin both.

Al Mars in Aus 8 are outstanding, some other makers are clearly not as good.

Some 154 CM or CPM154 can be terrific, some can be chippy or eratic. QC it what matters ......
 
Better in what way? 154CM can be hardened to a higher state. Most likely it will have better edge retention. AUS-8 will have better corrosion resitance and toughness. What characteristics do you seek. Saying one is better requires you to define the term "better."
 
I'm an apparent minority here - I think it's 154CM buy a long shot when made by a reputable mfg.
 
Reeek said:
I'm an apparent minority here - I think it's 154CM buy a long shot when made by a reputable mfg.
Click to expand...

No, I think you're right. By most standards 154 is a better steel than AUS8. The point some of us are making is that both are good steels for most uses and most users.

I would prefer 154, but I won't turn up my nose at a good design just because it was made of AUS8.
 
Thanks for all the input guys. I just bought the SOG TAC mini, it is in AUS8 but I think SOG is a reputable enough name!
 
knarfeng said:
But AUS8 is still an excellent blade alloy. Even in manila rope cutting tests, it has better edge retention than 440A or 420HC
Click to expand...

That's really not saying much. All three steels you mention are, in my very humble opinion, bare minimum cutlery alloys, not excellent ones. They're selected by manufacturers more for their ease of machining than their end performance. Ever notice you don't see them in custom/handmade knives?

You mention 440A... 440C is a BIG step up. 154CM is essentially 440C with added molybdenum for even better corrosion- and wear-resistance. It's not appreciably more difficult to sharpen.

It is true, however, that properly treated AUS8 can take a nice edge and is relatively easy to sharpen. But it is not a high-end steel in any way. 154CM and especially CPM-154 are definitely high-end and well worth the cost.
 
James_Terrio said:
That's really not saying much. All three steels you mention are, in my very humble opinion, bare minimum cutlery alloys, not excellent ones. They're selected by manufacturers more for their ease of machining than their end performance. Ever notice you don't see them in custom/handmade knives?

You mention 440A... 440C is a BIG step up. 154CM is essentially 440C with added molybdenum for even better corrosion- and wear-resistance. It's not appreciably more difficult to sharpen.

It is true, however, that properly treated AUS8 can take a nice edge and is relatively easy to sharpen. But it is not a high-end steel in any way. 154CM and especially CPM-154 are definitely high-end and well worth the cost.
Click to expand...

I'm well aware of the differences between 440A and 440C and how AUS8 compares to them, thank you very much.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641279

Read my entire post earlier in this thread, please. There are certain types of cutting jobs that are better performed by AUS8. However, jobs requiring wear resistance are better performed by 154CM blades and I personally prefer 154CM.

At the end of the day, each steel has its benefits, each has its weaknesses. To say that one steel is "better" than another says nothing until you say "better at what".
 
James_Terrio said:
That's really not saying much. All three steels you mention are, in my very humble opinion, bare minimum cutlery alloys, not excellent ones. They're selected by manufacturers more for their ease of machining than their end performance. Ever notice you don't see them in custom/handmade knives?

You mention 440A... 440C is a BIG step up. 154CM is essentially 440C with added molybdenum for even better corrosion- and wear-resistance. It's not appreciably more difficult to sharpen.

It is true, however, that properly treated AUS8 can take a nice edge and is relatively easy to sharpen. But it is not a high-end steel in any way. 154CM and especially CPM-154 are definitely high-end and well worth the cost.
Click to expand...
If im not mistaken caldwell is useing 154 in their customs.
 
IGotStabbed said:
For the metallurgy experts out there! Which steel is better, CM-154 or AUS8? What are the characteristics of each?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

You're not going to get a good answer asking that question. I know you've already made your purchase anyway, but you would have received more informative replies if you would have told us what type of use you intended the knife for, the type of blade style you wanted, and what type of physical environment you intended to use the knife in then ask which of these two steels would be better for the knife you want. Form follows function with a user knife. What and where you will be cutting determines what steel would be best.
Having said that, I own a SOG Spec-Elite II in AUS 8, and I like it, but I also have a Spyderco Endura 4 in VG-10 that I paid around the same amount for, and the VG-10 retains an edge longer. But the SOG has the Arc lock, which may be a stronger lock that the Endura's backlock. So I like both knives and don't regret buying either one, but I wish I'd waited and bought the more current Spec-Elite II in VG-10.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top