C'mon... a THOUSAND dollars for optics?

bulgron · Dec 3, 2008

Sid Post said:
$350 will buy you a pretty good Trijicon entry level scope FWIW.

Yes I know.

On the other hand, you KNOW the glass that I like is anything but entry level.

I saw the scope that I want at a gun show for $1300. Might be able to do better in Reno. Anyway, that's about what the rifle itself is going to cost me to build.

Assuming no legislative insanity gets in my way, I'll put this toy (because that's what it is) together over the next couple of years. Just another project in a long list of projects ....

SDS · Dec 3, 2008

timcsaw, I have had my Eotech for so long that without going and getting it out of the safe I couldn't tell you which model it is. It is the basic model though, no NV capabilities and I went with N batteries on a suggestion. I'd probably opt for the AA if I had it to do over just for availability of the batteries.

The battery life on the Aimpoint is something to consider too. They make a great product. I just personally preferred the reticle on the EOTECH over the Aimpoint dot.

SDS

Fallbrook Forge · Dec 3, 2008

in my experience talking with and shooting with some extremely talented long range(1k + yards) shooters, they all told me the same thing, spend more on the glass than you do on the rifle. One explained it like this, if you buy a 5k rifle and put 200$ glass on it, the glass will never be good enough for the rifle and you wont get the performance you could, if you put 2k glass on a 700$ rifle, you'll be able to shoot to the best of said rifles performance. That is what I did, well almost, I went with a Remington 700PSS and a Nightforce 3.5-15x50 NXS scope, I got the scope used for 900$ and the rifle was 600$. I have been very pleased with the performance. I have made a few 1k cold bore hits on a man sized steel.

now, if you want to go with some good glass that won't break the bank, here you go:

http://www.swfa.com/c-184-bushnell-elite-3200-rifle-scopes.aspx

http://www.swfa.com/pc-4304-231-swfa-ss-10x42-tactical-riflescope.aspx

those are a couple of options, the LEupold VX-III line is also very good glass.

Another thing, the ACOG series, has maybe the best quality glass I've ever seen. They have a clarity that cannot be explained, it has to be seen. And they are the most rugged scope I've ever seen(the Nightforce would be next)
ACOGs don't use batteries, huge plus in my opinion

Whatever you decide, have fun with it. Good luck, Semper Fi

beefangusbeef · Dec 4, 2008

I've got a mark IV on it and its working out great. Scopes been around the world several times and other than being refinished hasn't had a single issue. Either way I'd recommend something other than a 1x optic as I've had much better accuracy out of my SIG than I expected at first.

timcsaw · Dec 4, 2008

beefangusbeef said:
I've got a mark IV on it and its working out great. Scopes been around the world several times and other than being refinished hasn't had a single issue. Either way I'd recommend something other than a 1x optic as I've had much better accuracy out of my SIG than I expected at first.

Nice! What are those Back up, front and rear Iron sights I see there?

I know what you mean about wanting some "long glass"... I'm the same way... I like to be able to reach out a bit. I gotta' have at least 4x.

I'm flip-floppin' like crazy on this optics thing... right now I just threw on my 6-9x42 Leopold, but of course that long glass is "useless" against that short range target. I'd love to find some system which allows cowitness with a long scope (without going the "see through rings" route).

I note that the ACOG's range from 1x to 4x and then allow you to mount a Holo on top for short range. Many ACOG's also have a simple built in sight on top for a rough aimpoint "estimate" (I posted a pic in an earlier post which shows such a scope, but it's a 1X).

In past, I've had my long glass mounted, and had to take it off for short shots. Ever try to remove a scope slowly and quietly without spooking a big buck that's 40 feet out? Sucks.

Hmmm.... I wonder if I could rig a simple set of irons to the top of scope that would be worth a hoot for short range? Sight length would be no less than what one has with a handgun (probably longer than my Glock). Parallax would be a problem, but if it gave you a solid aimpoint solid at about 50 feet, I'd be happy with that. Hmmmm.... sounds like a project.

So....

Before I build myself a set of irons that I can attach to my 6-9x42 scope, does anyone know if such an animal already exists? Or a scope which already incorporates a rudimentary set of irons (I know ACOG's do).

I do appreciate all the advice here folks... You'z good people!

ThinkOfTheChildren · Dec 4, 2008

A lot of guys these days run a magnified optic of some kind (whether red dot, scope, whatever) with one of the tiny red-dots mounted on the top (or side) of that for close range shooting. It will run you more money than a scope with irons (which I know you were trying to avoid) but I just wanted to throw options out there. It will be a lot faster than a scope with irons...

Some examples of what I mean:
http://www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html?b=3&f=124&t=326894
http://tacticalnightvision.com/red_dot_sights.htm

Absintheur · Dec 4, 2008

My ten inch is set up with a 1.25X4, same brand as my new build. With the illumination turned on it is very fast up close and I can use the irons through the body of the scope with the illumination turned off. Of course with the QD mounts I can take the scope off completely in under 1 second. When I focus on the front sight I don't see the scope at all. I will say the 1.25 magnification allows me to see the front sight clearly without have to wear my reading glasses as well.

No matter what system you use it won't matter unless you practice. A lot.

timcsaw · Dec 4, 2008

ThinkOfTheChildren said:
A lot of guys these days run a magnified optic of some kind (whether red dot, scope, whatever) with one of the tiny red-dots mounted on the top (or side) of that for close range shooting. It will run you more money than a scope with irons (which I know you were trying to avoid) but I just wanted to throw options out there. It will be a lot faster than a scope with irons...

Some examples of what I mean:
http://www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html?b=3&f=124&t=326894
http://tacticalnightvision.com/red_dot_sights.htm

This seems like a very viable solution for me... Long glass as a primary with the mini-holo mounted on top... (I figured someone had to have already thought of this

)... I had thought more along the lines of something that would mount on the scope bell itself, but would be a manufacture nightmare due to the wide range of bell size (and I'm not sure the average bell would hold up to the pressure applied by such a system??).

As I have a reasonably good long lens, this might do the trick for short target acquisition.

I appreciate your input!

Absintheur · Dec 4, 2008

I know the Burris Fastfire is well liked for mounting with a scope, it is small, bright, and light.

rrg991981 · Dec 4, 2008

For less tactical scopes Nikon makes some great ones for reasonable and their BDC reticle is great.

SIFU1A · Dec 5, 2008

all the cheap red dots i have seen wash out in bright lite - the tasco propoint works pretty good though for ~$120 or so, i have an aimpoint on my flat top and a eotech on my A2 and have never regretted spending the $$ on them, once i convinced myself to spend it anyway lol, i tried a lotta BSA's and such 1st.

i have an older aimpoint circa '00 or so on my AK74 and it works ok too, lots better than any BSA i have seen, and it was inexpensive used.

beefangusbeef · Dec 5, 2008

What are those Back up, front and rear Iron sights I see there?

Front is a sampson front sight post. It lets you use an ar-15 rear site. Otherwise the factory front site is either too low or too high I can't remember right. The rear site is an arms 40LP.

m1marty · Dec 6, 2008

gruntinhusaybah said:
in my experience talking with and shooting with some extremely talented long range(1k + yards) shooters, they all told me the same thing, spend more on the glass than you do on the rifle. One explained it like this, if you buy a 5k rifle and put 200$ glass on it, the glass will never be good enough for the rifle and you wont get the performance you could, if you put 2k glass on a 700$ rifle, you'll be able to shoot to the best of said rifles performance.

Exactly. Do NOT cheap out on glass. You will be amazed at how much better your results are with good, quality stuff.
Some examples of some stuff I've had over the years- the most expensive being nearly 3K. Doesn't mean you need to spend that much but I am a firm believer that the glass has helped me to make some pretty spectacular shots.
Some glass (by U.S. Optics in this case):

Results w/ factory ammo shooting the rifle above: