Cold Steel 3V

[Insipid Moniker]

Man, your the one that started this by making a douche bag comment about my post there Mr technical. I have never, ever in my life heard someone call G10 or Micarta polymer. Maybe next time use your grandma's advice... "if you have nothing nice to say then say nothing at all"

You stated two polymers were superior to polymers. I corrected you. If you don't wish to be corrected don't say things that are demonstrably wrong. Especially when you have enough background to know it's demonstrably wrong.

 

[craytab]

You stated two polymers were superior to polymers. I corrected you. If you don't wish to be corrected don't say things that are demonstrably wrong. Especially when you have enough background to know it's demonstrably wrong.

And then add insult to injury with name calling. Some folks just can't handle being wrong (pun intended).

 

[Tachead01]

Exactly.



And S30V is close to 3v in what way? Much like your laps above I think you are making another mistake here. SHOW EVIDENCE TO BACK UP YOUR CLAIM.



You might think so and that is fine but from my experience with the same material you claim wears out I have a different opinion.



Then don't. No one is forcing you.



And my opinion is you are wrong :thumbup: It is okay, we all have opinions.




I don't know what knife industrials are but I think this brings about your bias here. You don't like the company and you don't like foreign produced stuff. Fine. But admit that. And also understand neither of those things have any bearing on the function of 3v or the handle material which the subject matter of this thread somehow turned into.

And again, similar price, and similar materials. Prove it.

Close in what way? What do you mean? S30V has better edge retention but is not as tough as 3V. It is good steel. Still a perfectly suited steel for a hunting knife imo.

Man, it could be how you live life, how you wear your knife, what you do for a living, exc. Don't be rediculous. It is entirely possible that one person can wear a knife far quicker even while being equally as careful.

I realize that.

So your opinion is that Kraton is a better handle material for a hard use knife then? Then why do all the hard use companies like Esee, Busse, Survive, exc. not use it?

Industry, knife industry(phone auto correct) you right about those two things but, it's not enough to stop me from buying them. I have owned many CS knives over the years. They are pretty decent knives but, like I said I grew past them and on to better. Let's not forget who they are here... A cheap, Asian made, department store brand not much better then Gerber and Sog.

I did... Benchmade Saddle Mountain Skinner. Similar knife, similar intended use, similar steel(both CPM super steel if you wanna call it that),similar price and you get a better sheath, scales, warranty, and fit and finish to boot.

Anyway, I am don't debating here. The op has our opinions and experiences and can make his own choice. Good luck to you sir(op).

 

[Tachead01]

You stated two polymers were superior to polymers. I corrected you. If you don't wish to be corrected don't say things that are demonstrably wrong. Especially when you have enough background to know it's demonstrably wrong.

But, G10 and Micarta aren't polymers technically. They are considered laminates I believe. Even if both elements are polymers. Again, you are getting ridiculously technical here man. I bet everyone but you got my post and didn't need the technical argument. No one calls G10 or Micarta polymer in standard English. You are being a bit silly I think here man.

Let's get this train wreck back on the rails lol.

 

[marcinek]

Anyway, I am don't debating here. The op has our opinions and experiences and can make his own choice. Good luck to you sir(op).

So what is your opinion about the OPs actual question....

Never been particularly interested in Cold Steel's offerings before but some of their designs (Master Hunter and Pendleton Hunter particularly) look pretty tempting in 3V at the price. Does anyone have experience with Cold Steel's 3V and if so what is it like?

other than

Not sure about their 3V but, there handle material, ....

 

[Tachead01]

So what is your opinion about the OPs actual question....



other than

I apologize to the OP for giving extra help/experience/opinion with CS if he didn't want it lol.

P. S. you guys are a friendly bunch here at BF

 

[craytab]

Close in what way? What do you mean? S30V has better edge retention but is not as tough as 3V. It is good steel. Still a perfectly suited steel for a hunting knife imo.

Man, it could be how you live life, how you wear your knife, what you do for a living, exc. Don't be rediculous. It is entirely possible that one person can wear a knife far quicker even while being equally as careful.

I realize that.

So your opinion is that Kraton is a better handle material for a hard use knife then? Then why do all the hard use companies like Esee, Busse, Survive, exc. not use it?

Industry, knife industry(phone auto correct) you right about those two things but, it's not enough to stop me from buying them. I have owned many CS knives over the years. They are pretty decent knives but, like I said I grew past them and on to better. Let's not forget who they are here... A cheap, Asian made, department store brand not much better then Gerber and Sog.

I did... Benchmade Saddle Mountain Skinner. Similar knife, similar intended use, similar steel(both CPM super steel if you wanna call it that),similar price and you get a better sheath, scales, warranty, and fit and finish to boot.

Anyway, I am don't debating here. The op has our opinions and experiences and can make his own choice. Good luck to you sir(op).

The word is ridiculous. And I am not the one being so. Saying S30v and 3v are "similar" and the price equivalent justifiable is ridiculous. Go take a look around at what 3v goes for compared to S30v. Again, you haven't provided a shred of evidence to back up your assertion and frankly you are getting some basic facts wrong.

Oh, and yet again, country of manufacture matters not. Advertising is just that. Cold steel makes some fine products. And so does SOG and Gerber when they want.

And when did I say kraton was a better hard use knife handle material? Oh wait, I didn't. That was your inference. Yet another error. I much prefer the G10 on my Busse knives or my BRKTs. And the Micarta on my Esee knives is wonderful. Some of my favorite material is the FR-whatever SOG does with their Seal knives. But for me to sit idle while rubber handles get blasted with "you don't use your knives hard like I do" arguments won't happen. Because I have, and in my experience it is a fine handle materail. Not as good as others but not the biased abomination you are making it out to be. Country of origin or advertising doesn't impact the handle or steel. Sorry, it just doesn't. IMO of course :thumbup:

Oh, and prove it. Similar materials and similar price. I have a feeling if this continues I should just put that in my sig.

 

[craytab]

Let's get this train wreck back on the rails lol.

So says the guy who derailed it, man....

P. S. you guys are a friendly bunch here at BF

God forbid people be accountable for what they say. What is with this craziness!

 

[KenHash]

CS's offerings are particularly susceptible to wear due to their use of little raised nubs. The nubs wear off in the high use areas first.

And, I conclude that I use/carry my knives more/harder. The one I wore through(the worst) was EDCed for years on end. There was no abuse. I get made fun of for how anal I am about taking care of my stuff lol. .

The bottom line is; Kraton is one of the least durable handle materials and I would rather something tougher on a hard use knife like this.

Whatever you say.
Bought this Carbon V SRK from Smokey Mountain the year it came out, late 1989.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

But, G10 and Micarta aren't polymers technically. They are considered laminates I believe. Even if both elements are polymers. Again, you are getting ridiculously technical here man. I bet everyone but you got my post and didn't need the technical argument. No one calls G10 or Micarta polymer in standard English. You are being a bit silly I think here man.

Let's get this train wreck back on the rails lol.

They are considered high-pressure thermosetting laminate industrial plastics. Which are polymers.

 

[Thomas Linton]

A polymer (/ˈpɒlɨmər/[2][3]) (Greek poly-, "many" + -mer, "parts") is a large molecule, or macromolecule, composed of many repeated subunits. Because of their broad range of properties,[4] both synthetic and natural polymers play an essential and ubiquitous role in everyday life.[5] Polymers range from familiar synthetic plastics such as polystyrene to natural biopolymers such as DNA and proteins that are fundamental to biological structure and function. Polymers, both natural and synthetic, are created via polymerization of many small molecules, known as monomers. Their consequently large molecular mass relative to small molecule compounds produces unique physical properties, including toughness, viscoelasticity, and a tendency to form glasses and semicrystalline structures rather than crystals.

And phenolic resins used to make Micarta are clearly polymers.

How interesting. Largely not relevant to the topic. Call it a pickle.

Kraton gives me blisters I get on no other knife than my Trail Master, and the handle has become loose on the tang. I recognize that this might be just me - except so many others have reported the same here over the decades.


Carbon V superior to 3V? Very revealing comment.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

Stop it. Insults and arguments have already derailed the thread. Any more and I'll just close it.

 

[Nathan the Machinist]

I don't normaly post in here, but for what it is worth...

I was the product design manager for an engineering consultancy specializing in plastics. Both G10 and phenolic are considered polymers in industry. They are reinforced, but so are many injection molded plastics. I understand why a person might not think of them as polymers because most folks don't have a lot of exposure to long fiber and thermosets, but they're polymers as much as a tomato is a fruit.

Also, I buy a lot of 3V. I think the price is pretty similar to S30V. It machines and processes better, so it is a less expensive material to make knives from, IMO.

S30V only has better edge retention than 3V in specialized cut testing involving abrasive media and low cutting forces. In reality, 3V has much better edge stability and doesn't dull from chipping or rolling as badly as S30V, which has a large carbide volume fraction and issues with stabilized RA. For most people who use their edges harder than opening cardboard boxes they will find better edge retention in 3V at HRC60-62. Also, 3V can be used at higher harnesses than S30V without durability concerns and tolerates a thinner edge.

 

[Cobalt]

I don't normaly post in here, but for what it is worth...

I was the product design manager for an engineering consultancy specializing in plastics. Both G10 and phenolic are considered polymers in industry. They are reinforced, but so are many injection molded plastics. I understand why a person might not think of them as polymers because most folks don't have a lot of exposure to long fiber and thermosets, but they're polymers as much as a tomato is a fruit.

Also, I buy a lot of 3V. I think the price is pretty similar to S30V. It machines and processes better, so it is a less expensive material to make knives from, IMO.

S30V only has better edge retention than 3V in specialized cut testing involving abrasive media and low cutting forces. In reality, 3V has much better edge stability and doesn't dull from chipping or rolling as badly as S30V, which has a large carbide volume fraction and issues with stabilized RA. For most people who use their edges harder than opening cardboard boxes they will find better edge retention in 3V at HRC60-62. Also, 3V can be used at higher harnesses than S30V without durability concerns and tolerates a thinner edge.

Good information, thanks for the input. On an unrelated note, what do you think of S35V compared to S30V?

 

[KingMC]

I have a large knife in 3V I got from J-Siah here on the forums, i beat on it as hard as I could last campout I was on and it took it like a champ, barely needed to strop it afterwards and it was back to being hair-popping sharp. Unless CS screws up the heat treat (probably won't) then I'd say give their 3V a shot, their ergos are nice and the price is very competitive for 3V. If you're willing to spend a little more on a knife the custom for sale subforum here often has 3V knives for decent prices that are hand-made and well-made too.

 

[Cobalt]

I have a large knife in 3V I got from J-Siah here on the forums, i did everything I could to the knife last campout I was on and it took it like a champ. Unless CS screws up the heat treat (probably won't) then I'd say give their 3V a shot, their ergos are nice and the price is very competitive for 3V. If you're willing to spend a little more on a knife the custom for sale subforum here often has 3V knives for decent prices that are hand-made and well-made too.

Based on the smaller versions tests, it seems to be done right.

I wonder if CS will replacing all of it's San Mai line with 3V

 

[james terrio]

Unless your only criteria are cost and sharpening it with any old rock you might find, there's no way "CarbonV"/1095CV/whatever you feel like calling it stands up to 3V. I've used and made many knives in both steels and I'd choose 3V every single time. That's not to say CV is "bad" at all - it's a very good steel -
3V is just better.

The Master Hunter is one of the finest mass-produced general-purpose/hunting/bushcraft/survival knives ever designed. Including the Kraton handle (and I don't normally care much for soft grips.) The blade, while plenty stout for a knife this size, is actually ground properly for cutting stuff, not just bashing through it... and that kind of geometry is pretty darn rare on a mass-produced knife. Even the hard plastic sheath my old Camillus-era "CarbonV" model came with is pretty good. (Ugly as sin, but sturdy and safe).

DLC coating isn't necessary in my opinion, but it's not a deal-breaker for me either. If the grind and taper is still the same, as people report, and unless whoever's actually making the 3V versions for CS completely fouls up the HT, I wouldn't hesitate to give one a try. Especially at around $100 actual price (based on a real quick web search).

Anyone know who's actually making these, or at least what hardness they're being run at? 58Rc would be fine, but I agree with Nathan, 60 or even 62 would give an even longer-lasting edge while giving up very little (if anything) in toughness or sharpenability.

 

[bodog]

I don't normaly post in here, but for what it is worth...

I was the product design manager for an engineering consultancy specializing in plastics. Both G10 and phenolic are considered polymers in industry. They are reinforced, but so are many injection molded plastics. I understand why a person might not think of them as polymers because most folks don't have a lot of exposure to long fiber and thermosets, but they're polymers as much as a tomato is a fruit.

Also, I buy a lot of 3V. I think the price is pretty similar to S30V. It machines and processes better, so it is a less expensive material to make knives from, IMO.

S30V only has better edge retention than 3V in specialized cut testing involving abrasive media and low cutting forces. In reality, 3V has much better edge stability and doesn't dull from chipping or rolling as badly as S30V, which has a large carbide volume fraction and issues with stabilized RA. For most people who use their edges harder than opening cardboard boxes they will find better edge retention in 3V at HRC60-62. Also, 3V can be used at higher harnesses than S30V without durability concerns and tolerates a thinner edge.

Thank you! I wish more people understood this and could get their heads around the idea that maybe, just maybe, the highest carbide steels won't necessarily have the best edge retention cutting most types of media. They're for very specific things and when used to cut those things they're great. Take them away from those duties and people see very rapid edge degradation.

 

[mete]

Phenolic resin with linen is an early composite .They used it for circuit boards in radios [1920 s ] and the Chinese still use it .SurviveKnives uses it with cotton canvas which when wet makes a good gripping surface.

I prefer S35VN over S30V and is a favorite of those types of steel . 3V is a very interesting steel. I have used the 4" to take apart a deer and it does a fine job.Not a steel you have to spend much time sharpening and you shouldn't get chipping on those deer bones !

Steel is NOT a polymer !

 

[Cobalt]

Phenolic resin with linen is an early composite .They used it for circuit boards in radios [1920 s ] and the Chinese still use it .SurviveKnives uses it with cotton canvas which when wet makes a good gripping surface.

I prefer S35VN over S30V and is a favorite of those types of steel . 3V is a very interesting steel. I have used the 4" to take apart a deer and it does a fine job.Not a steel you have to spend much time sharpening and you shouldn't get chipping on those deer bones !

Steel is NOT a polymer !

Seems like S35VN is an improvement over S30V. For whatever reason I seem to be stuck back in time with my preferences for non cpm stainless steels like ATS34, BG42 and D2. But S35 seems like a worthy steel.