Cold Steel Carbon V heat treatment problem

[ehhh]

You also have to consider that those are only 2 examples of knives that are very popular and very widespread because they are marketed to a more general audience.

I wonder how many knives have NOT broken in such use. I'd hazard a guess that Cold Steel would be somewhere at the top of the charts with that number.

 

[psy-ops]

Cobalt, I am not doubting the validity of the breaks. I have an RD-4 and I could probably put it in the center of the log and hit it with a sledge and split the log.

BTW, my Carbon V Master Hunter has held up for 9 years. But I don't got into the cold much.

 

[Dr. Mudd]

First, I would gladly trust my life to any of my knives made from Cold Steel's Carbon V steel.

Second, I don't see any need to beat my knives through wood when an ax or hatchet would work far better.

 

[shecky]

Bad technique? please. That is a crock of crap. When batoning, you do not often have much a choice if it is tip up or down. A quality blade should not break if batoned through wood using another piece of wood or a mallet. I have batoned through hundreds of logs with my good knives and never broken one and I never paid attention to how I was doing it.

So you do know the details of why that blade broke? Fill us in. Or I suppose that Bark river knife that busted was also a piece of crap.

 

[jdm61]

Wayne Goddard wrote that the closest thing that he could find to Carbon V was 6150, which, if I recall correctly, is kinda like 5160 with a a little bit of vanadium.

 

[Cobalt]

So you do know the details of why that blade broke? Fill us in. Or I suppose that Bark river knife that busted was also a piece of crap.

you can read for yourself, I am sure you know how to do that with the search function, it's not rocket science.

As for the Bark river, I don't know anything about that. I do know that Mike Stewart is one of the most knowledgeable knifemakers and he makes a great product. However, either that knife got away from him or it took more abuse than was stated, like batoning with a hammer. I would think that latter. A2 properly HT'd should take batoning easily. Oh, and the discussion was about CS not BRKW.

Here, is a compilation of much info on using knives hard. Read through that:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=481537


plain and simple if your camp knife cannot baton without breaking, then it is a steak/filet knife not a camp knife.

 

[AF]

First, I would gladly trust my life to any of my knives made from Cold Steel's Carbon V steel.

Second, I don't see any need to beat my knives through wood when an ax or hatchet would work far better.

Why make a blade 1/4'' thick if it's not meant to used hard?

 

[Cobalt]

You also have to consider that those are only 2 examples of knives that are very popular and very widespread because they are marketed to a more general audience.

I wonder how many knives have NOT broken in such use. I'd hazard a guess that Cold Steel would be somewhere at the top of the charts with that number.

exactly..probably a lot of CS Trailmasters, reconscouts and tantos did this without failing. Which goes back to my statement of inconsistency in certain manufacturers. The reason why you go to a bark river, a busse, a strider, and so on is because they have a higher consistency of product quality. This is why you also pay more for a custom knife. This doesn't mean that you cannot get a bad example, it just means that your chances are much better at getting a great one.

 

[G. Scott H.]

What about the blade shoulder/tang juncture as a possible reason? It's hard to tell what the Tanto tang/shoulder area looks like in the pic, but the same area is clear in the Scout pic, and it looks like CS just uses a squared off "90 degree" transition between tang and blade shoulder. I've always heard in discussions about swords that the transition should be rounded or radiused (not sure if these are the correct terms). I'd assume the same is true of knives? When you have a sharp angle where the tang and blade shoulders meet, it supposedly greatly magnifies the forces applied to the area and creates a weak spot. Any thoughts?

 

[sdt11670]

Never heard of bad Carbon V. I don't know if it was something different before it was 0170-6 by Camillus.

That knife was probably defective, "Carbon V" doesn't hold an edge particularly well, it is much tougher than any stainless at similar hardness, batoning isn't very hard on a knife, and the steel has nothing to do with how a knife cuts.
If you don't know even the first thing about the subject(which you obviously don't), how about you avoid answering questions about it. People who come here with legitimate questions don't deserve BS from someone who just makes stuff up out of the blue.

Owen I have a ton of carbon v blades as well as tons of just about every other type of steel that i can think of and yes i have studied some on the subject of metallugy. Carbon v doesn't seem to hold it's edge as well while skinning or cutting green wood due to edge corrosion not the fact that the blade has dulled or rolled and no carbon v is not much tougher than some stainless steels... it will snap in freezing temperatures much easier than 1050-1095. So you obviously have no knowledge of anything to do with this subject other than hearsay. When you actually try out several steels outside of your kitchen perhaps you'll "find" disagreeable evidence and not just what you stroll around here reading.

 

[sdt11670]

.what planet have you been on, not this one that's for sure

Please provide specific data to this. I want to see it.....

Ok Ok this one i didn't do but at least one thread exist with pictures of the test between these steels and you can find it on either bf or kf. And yes i know it may not actually prove anything...for me though cv holds an edge much longer than most steels while cutting through dry media including dry logs but i have snapped a couple blades in freezing temperatures while batonning and one simply chopping so i have to say that it isn't very tough at least not in all climates. I have some medium carbon blades which i refer to as unbreakable due to the fact that i have used them to pry and chop and i have struck them with every ounce of my strength wile battonning and have even used some with a hammer. I know there is actually no steel which is unbreakable but as far as cv i dont think it's much tougher than 420 even though it will hold an edge much, much longer.

 

[Cobalt]

Ok Ok this one i didn't do but at least one thread exist with pictures of the test between these steels and you can find it on either bf or kf. .

Please find it, since I have never seen or heard of this funny comparison. In fact Mike Turber compared Busses Basic 9 in Modified INFI to CS Trail master in Carbon V and the modified INFI beat it hands down. Search under Mike Turber and you find that.


Also, Cliff tested them both as well I know, because I am the one who got the knives from Lynn Thompson in 1999(I think) and sent them to Cliff, and here is what he had to say:

Jerry :


I am always looking for a better blades and that includes something to replace my Battle Mistress. I have blades that can outperform it in certain areas, and steels that will outperform INFI in certain aspects as well, but nothing that I would pick as an overall better knife or an overall better steel. Right now I am working with a medium sized 3V blade and depending on how that turns out will probably get a blade crafted out of it similar to the Battle Mistress to see if I can retire it.

However, back to the original point, Cold Steel and Kevin McClung do not make blades that come close to the INFI Busse Combat blades. The steels are weaker, more fragile and rust faster. I snapped about 7 cm off of a Trailmaster with no great effort, chipped the edge out on bone, could rotate the grip with my hand, broke one TUSK in half, bent another and later broke larger finger nail pieces out of its edge.

Busse Combat makes *heavy* duty blades. Stepping up to the plate against them is making a very large step indeed and usually does not bode well for the other blade.

-Cliff


[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 03-07-2000).]

Oh, and yes, COLD STEEL does not RADIUS their transitions, which IS a source of STRESS RISERS, here's the proof. The Trailmaster is on the right, the Busse Basic 9 is on the left:

 

[shecky]

you can read for yourself, I am sure you know how to do that with the search function, it's not rocket science.

IOW, you have no first hand experience about this particular failure. Your claim is that a knife doesn't fail because of bad technique. That's a claim you should be able to back up.

Oh, and the discussion was about CS not BRKW.


plain and simple if your camp knife cannot baton without breaking, then it is a steak/filet knife not a camp knife.

Yet the BRKW knife broke while batoning. You claimed such failure could not occur due to bad technique. The evidence I provided suggests otherwise.

 

[Ben Dover]

you know what happened? what happened is a lot of people here are starting to lose credability.i love a good knife review but ATLEAST keep it honest!

Don't expect a lot of honesty from a few people who are so totally blinded by their irrational hatred of Lynn Thompson that they would call Bob Loveless knives "junk" if Cold Steel sold them.

 

[sdt11670]

Please find it, since I have never seen or heard of this funny comparison. In fact Mike Turber compared Busses Basic 9 in Modified INFI to CS Trail master in Carbon V and the modified INFI beat it hands down. Search under Mike Turber and you find that.


Also, Cliff tested them both as well I know, because I am the one who got the knives from Lynn Thompson in 1999(I think) and sent them to Cliff, and here is what he had to say:






Oh, and yes, COLD STEEL does not RADIUS their transitions, which IS a source of STRESS RISERS, here's the proof. The Trailmaster is on the right, the Busse Basic 9 is on the left:

remember we were talking about edge holding not durability.( personally i would rather have a cheap 1050 blade where durability is concerned) I tried to do a search but keep coming up with a blank page.

 

[Cobalt]

IOW, you have no first hand experience about this particular failure. Your claim is that a knife doesn't fail because of bad technique. That's a claim you should be able to back up.


Yet the BRKW knife broke while batoning. You claimed such failure could not occur due to bad technique. The evidence I provided suggests otherwise.

BAD TECHNIQUE is just an excuse for poor knife construction.

you provided no evidence. just supposition. I provided you with a wealth of links in one of my posts read through them. Read through the abuse those knives took.

Read through cliffs tests as well. edge holding is there.

 

[Ben Dover]

remember we were talking about edge holding not durability.( personally i would rather have a cheap 1050 blade where durability is concerned) I tried to do a search but keep coming up with a blank page.

My CS Master Hunter, and SRK both hold an edge very well. Far better than a Gerber, Buck, KaBar etc., in a similar price range.

 

[goldie]

why baton a knife when you can just as well use a hatchet or hand axe?if you know you'll be in the woods or going to be chopping,just bring an axe or hatchet. it makes no sense to abuse a knife,maybe some were never made to be smacked through logs.