Cold Steel Espada XL / CTS-XHP / DLC Coating

[Claude_88]

It arrived today, pursuant to its purchase from Amazon, at the surprisingly very low cost of $221.00. Two (2) attempts were required. The first one I received, made a disturbing scraping / grinding sound when opening and closing the blade. The blade was also extremely uncentered, contacting the liner approximately 50% of the time. Within two (2) days I discovered the cause and effect of the scraping / grinding noise, as ALL of the DLC or whatever black coating is used for the rounded base of the blade, had been stripped by the stop pin, from the act of opening and closing the blade. Large gaps and spaces also were present, between the G10 scales and the liners and the tip grind and formation was a first class hack job. Consequently, I assumed the awful F & F was the reason for the very low cost, as $221.00 is approximately half the price of the MSRP, as set forth by the Cold Steel online store.

I decided to roll the dice and give it another go. Within 48 hours, a replacement arrived at my home, today. It is dangerously close to being perfect, in all regards and as to all aspects of the knife. As such, I figured I'd share this information, assuming the extremely low cost of this wondrous blade as offered by Amazon, is not already well known.

Humorously, when I telephoned Cold Steel's customer service regarding the first one I had received, the very polite and well spoken gentleman did everything in his power to dissuade me from sending it to Cold Steel, for an analysis and likely replacement. He told me that it was perfectly normal for ALL of the DLC or whatever the black coating is on the base of the blade, to be stripped away within two (2) days of opening and closing the blade a handful of times, whilst accompanied by an unsettling scraping / grinding sound. When I inquired as to whether I could send it to them for an analysis to determine whether it is a bona fide defect, he said he wouldn't advise me to do so, because I "...would be without my blade for 3 to 6 months, based upon their current workload..." LOLOLOLLLLLL In any event, I am very pleased to have doubted his dubious claim that the problems were "perfectly normal", as the replacement received from Amazon, has no such clear and convincing defects. The DLC is NOT being stripped away, which was my primary gripe. The blade is very well centered, particularly in light of the fact the blade is 7 1/2 inches in length. Moreover, no gaps or spaces exist between the scales and the handles. Winning.

The only question I have, is how can Amazon afford to sell a knife, the MSRP of which is $439.99, for $221.00? And although I know it can be hand picked for quality by a Cold Steel representative if purchased directly from Cold Steel, is there really anyone who would spend twice as much, for that privilege, and in my case of living far from where it would be shipped, wait 7 to 10 days to receive it, instead of 48 hours?

I am loving the massive slab of CTS-XHP alloy, and the fact that it was sharpened to the extent that simply looking at the blade, can result in the loss of a digit. LOL.

Highly recommended for anyone desirous of owning a completely impractical, comically oversized folding knife, consisting of high quality materials and an amazing blade.

 

[Claude_88]

 

[Comeuppance]

Most knife companies offer incredibly terrible prices direct from the manufacturer. Spyderco, Benchmade, Cold Steel, KAI brands, and others have prices 30-50% higher than the dealers they sell to. I'm not entirely sure -why- this is standar practice (I'm sure there's a good reason...?) but it's certainly nothing exclusive to Cold Steel.

That rep you spoke to is full of crap, as you already concluded. Most of the Cold Steel knives I have purchased have been nearly-if-not-actually perfect in every regard, from centering to lockup to blade grind to pivot smoothness to heat treatment to initial sharpness to... I had a large DLC XHP G10 Espada and the old AUS8 bolstered model and did a blade swap to produce a Tuxedo Espada with excellent results.

 

[Claude_88]

Most knife companies offer incredibly terrible prices direct from the manufacturer. Spyderco, Benchmade, Cold Steel, KAI brands, and others have prices 30-50% higher than the dealers they sell to. I'm not entirely sure -why- this is standar practice (I'm sure there's a good reason...?) but it's certainly nothing exclusive to Cold Steel.

That rep you spoke to is full of crap, as you already concluded. Most of the Cold Steel knives I have purchased have been nearly-if-not-actually perfect in every regard, from centering to lockup to blade grind to pivot smoothness to heat treatment to initial sharpness to... I had a large DLC XHP G10 Espada and the old AUS8 bolstered model and did a blade swap to produce a Tuxedo Espada with excellent results.

The Tuxedo Espada pursuant to your blade swap must look amazing. Great that you were able to formulate the idea and effectuate the maneuver. This is my third Cold Steel. I have the Voyager Tanto XL in BDS-CT1 and the Voyager Vaquero XL in BDS-CT1, both of which I found to be great deals, due to the fact that most of my prior production knives were Benchmades and consequently far more expensive. I concur with your assessment. All three (3) Cold Steels are virtually flawless. As an aside, I recently submitted four (4) knives to Benchmade for various repairs and blade changes. The turn around time was 36 hours. I kid you not. Spectacular customer service.

And yes, indeed. I had a very hard time not shredding the disingenuous Cold Steel representative I had spoken with, as his scripted recitations aimed at dissuading me from seeking a replacement, by virtue of Cold Steel's warranty, were unbelievably transparent.

 

[ThePeacent]

The Tuxedo was awesome...it was sold before I could even send a PM to get it. Incredible piece.

I own five CTS-XHP Blades from CS.

All 5 came perfect, centered, and with almost no noticeable flaws. F&F far away from other previous CS products I've had in the past. The DLC Coating is awesome, strong and has a peculiar aspect that I really dig.

These new series of new-steel offerings is hard to compare to any other, and no brand offers such bang for your buck performance wise in my opinion, maybe Spyderco being the one and only exception to that. The company has listened to their customers and has upped the game, really.

 

[TravisH]

Most knife companies offer incredibly terrible prices direct from the manufacturer. Spyderco, Benchmade, Cold Steel, KAI brands, and others have prices 30-50% higher than the dealers they sell to. I'm not entirely sure -why- this is standar practice (I'm sure there's a good reason...?) but it's certainly nothing exclusive to Cold Steel.

Common business practice, regardless of product.

Buying direct is almost always at MSRP. Internal accounting reasons and 'non-compete' policy with their dealers.

That rep you spoke to is full of crap, as you already concluded. Most of the Cold Steel knives I have purchased have been nearly-if-not-actually perfect in every regard ...

Agree. Bad rep.

Every company I've dealt with has been happy to examine the knife if there is any concern.

My Recon 1 in XHP was in 'perfect' condition upon receipt and there has been no issue with the DLC since.

 

[Claude_88]

Common business practice, regardless of product.

Buying direct is almost always at MSRP. Internal accounting reasons and 'non-compete' policy with their deal.

I knew that to be the case, but this is the first time I've ever purchased something for one-half (1/2) of its MSRP. For example, I recently purchased a Benchmade 757 Vicar, the lowest price of which I could find on Amazon was $250.00. Had I purchased it directly from Benchmade, it would have cost me only $50.00 more. Whereas, it would have cost me an extra $220.00, approximately, to purchase the Espada directly from Cold Steel. That's the reason I was surprised by the huge disparity.

 

[rschuch]

Highly recommended for anyone desirous of owning a completely impractical, comically oversized folding knife, consisting of high quality materials and an amazing blade.

Yeah, I was on the fence between the Espada XL and the Counter Point XL and the Counter Point won out, and now it's like, "What was I THINKING?!?" The lock is slowly softening up, but it's still a bear to disengage. Definitely impractical and cartoonish, I showed it to a co-worker who just laughed. I think some of it is the handle because you could almost hold it two-handed. But I LIKE it! It's a folding machete. And for a while I thought my Benchmade 860 was impractical... Hah!

 

[Claude_88]

Actually, the example I provided of the Vicar, was a poor example, as I believe Benchmade imposes price reduction restrictions upon their authorized dealers. Hence, the far smaller difference between the MSRP and the lowest price on Amazon.

 

[RevDevil]

Actually, the example I provided of the Vicar, was a poor example, as I believe Benchmade imposes price reduction restrictions upon their authorized dealers. Hence, the far smaller difference between the MSRP and the lowest price on Amazon.

Minimum Advertised Pricing Policy, the price is the price. More and more companies are doing this now, more recently Spyderco has started this practice. The reason is so the product you buy has a retail price that is the same across the board, keeping the intrinsic value of said item regardless of purchase channel. While it may not make sense to some, it has apparently become a necessity since the smaller brick and mortar stores that do have overhead were unable to compete with the eBay/Amazon Marketplace sellers that may not have the same overhead.
The repercussions of not following the contract made with the manufacturer I believe can be disqualification from being a seller or being able to purchase the product directly at all. There was a time when you could literally buy Kershaw Leeks for $20 all day long from dozens of sellers on eBay. You could buy Benchmade Mini Grips for less than $50, and Spyderco Enduras for $40. Those days are long gone.

 

[Claude_88]

Yeah, I was on the fence between the Espada XL and the Counter Point XL and the Counter Point won out, and now it's like, "What was I THINKING?!?" The lock is slowly softening up, but it's still a bear to disengage. Definitely impractical and cartoonish, I showed it to a co-worker who just laughed. I think some of it is the handle because you could almost hold it two-handed. But I LIKE it! It's a folding machete. And for a while I thought my Benchmade 860 was impractical... Hah!

Ha. Well, in any event, the Counter Point is bad ass. As is the 860. I desperately want one and none of the Benchmade authorized dealers in my area have it in stock. Such being the case, I "attempted" to buy one from Amazon. The first one arrived with an extremely off center blade and a ridiculous amount of blade play. Up until that point, I had been successful in centering all off centered blades I had received, by various means. But that 860 blade was as stubborn as a mule and I couldn't center the blade or eliminate the blade play. So, I exchanged it via Amazon for an identical 860. I opened the box hurriedly and much to my dismay, the blade on the replacement 860 was so off center, it was pressing the right side of the liner, as if it were seeking to be further off center but the liner prevented it from doing so. Fail. I returned it to Amazon. Next time I have some discretionary income, I'm going to purchase it from an online seller, who agrees to select one with proper F & F, including, but not limited to, a centered blade.

 

[Claude_88]

Minimum Advertised Pricing Policy, the price is the price. More and more companies are doing this now, more recently Spyderco has started this practice. The reason is so the product you buy has a retail price that is the same across the board, keeping the intrinsic value of said item regardless of purchase channel. While it may not make sense to some, it has apparently become a necessity since the smaller brick and mortar stores that do have overhead were unable to compete with the eBay/Amazon Marketplace sellers that may not have the same overhead.
The repercussions of not following the contract made with the manufacturer I believe can be disqualification from being a seller or being able to purchase the product directly at all. There was a time when you could literally buy Kershaw Leeks for $20 all day long from dozens of sellers on eBay. You could buy Benchmade Mini Grips for less than $50, and Spyderco Enduras for $40. Those days are long gone.

Right. Understood. Thanks. The dreaded MAPP, from the perspective of consumers.

Two (2) authorized dealers within shouting distance of one another, are reasonably close to me. Interestingly, I know for a fact one of the dealers is in FLAGRANT violation of the MAPP. The store is always very busy to the extent it's hard to get the attention of a sales person to make a purchase. Most of the customers are there to buy guns and ammunition, but they offer a great selection of Benchmades. The price of the two (2) Benchmades I purchased from them was far below the MAPP. Though I am grateful to pay the very low prices, I was compelled to recently inquire about the MAPP. My answer was a blank stare as if I were speaking a foreign language. LOL. I wasn't looking a gift horse in the mouth. Rather, it was sheer curiosity. Whereas, the other store, shockingly, sells Benchmades IN EXCESS OF THE MSRP. For example, they sell the Vicar I referenced hereinabove, for $310.00, though the MSRP is $300.00. What amazes me, is this confiscatory store seems to do just as well as the nearby store, the prices of which are clearly less the MAPP. I suspect the reason is the store owner is a well known name in knife and medieval weapon circles. I of course never purchased anything from him, but I did utilize his supposed sharpening skills, which was a terrible mistake, as he did such a hack job, I had to send the knife to Benchmade thereafter, for a replacement blade.

 

[RevDevil]

I know of one online vendor in particular that has many hard to find knives, and the prices listed on their website is grossly in excess of whatever the MSRP is on just about every piece listed. The LE/Sprint Runs are even higher, to the point of ridiculousness. There is apparently no repercussions against stores that do this since it's not an essential item for sustaining life. I recall other instances of large stores seeing legal action taken against them for scalping the prices on heaters, flashlights, water and other stuff during natural disasters.

 

[Claude_88]

I recall other instances of large stores seeing legal action taken against them for scalping the prices on heaters, flashlights, water and other stuff during natural disasters.

We had that happen here, in NYC, during a blackout in which no power or water were available, about 10 years ago. Street vendors in particular were selling bottled water for $20. Similar atrocious conduct was occurring all over the city. As you probably already know, it's considered "price gouging."

In the aftermath, the public outrage was widespread and loud enough to compel the Attorney General to take punitive measures, including the revocation of vending licenses, of any vendors or sellers whom had engaged in the unconscionable act of "price gouging." Preying upon and taking advantage of the public during a crisis, under emergency circumstances.

 

[sharp_edge]

This may sounds a bit heartless but why should we knife users care about protecting brick and morta stores, especially at the cost of our benefits, if what is said about the reason of MAP is true?

 

[Claude_88]

This may sounds a bit heartless but why should we knife users care about protecting brick and morta stores, especially at the cost of our benefits, if what is said about the reason of MAP is true?

I, personally, didn't render an absolute opinion, regarding the reasoning. I'm not sure anyone specifically stated they "care about" protecting brick and mortar stores. In fact, I referred to it as the "dreaded MAPP." Thus, we appear to be on the same page.

 

[ursamajor]

Right. Understood. Thanks. The dreaded MAPP, from the perspective of consumers.

Two (2) authorized dealers within shouting distance of one another, are reasonably close to me. Interestingly, I know for a fact one of the dealers is in FLAGRANT violation of the MAPP. The store is always very busy to the extent it's hard to get the attention of a sales person to make a purchase. Most of the customers are there to buy guns and ammunition, but they offer a great selection of Benchmades. The price of the two (2) Benchmades I purchased from them was far below the MAPP. Though I am grateful to pay the very low prices, I was compelled to recently inquire about the MAPP. My answer was a blank stare as if I were speaking a foreign language. LOL. I wasn't looking a gift horse in the mouth. Rather, it was sheer curiosity. Whereas, the other store, shockingly, sells Benchmades IN EXCESS OF THE MSRP. For example, they sell the Vicar I referenced hereinabove, for $310.00, though the MSRP is $300.00. What amazes me, is this confiscatory store seems to do just as well as the nearby store, the prices of which are clearly less the MAPP. I suspect the reason is the store owner is a well known name in knife and medieval weapon circles. I of course never purchased anything from him, but I did utilize his supposed sharpening skills, which was a terrible mistake, as he did such a hack job, I had to send the knife to Benchmade thereafter, for a replacement blade.

A dealer can sell it for as little as they want. They just can't advertise that price. If the local shop is selling them for pennies, it does not violate MAPP, unless they advertise that price.

 

[RevDevil]

A dealer can sell it for as little as they want. They just can't advertise that price. If the local shop is selling them for pennies, it does not violate MAPP, unless they advertise that price.

That is not the case with ZT, Benchmade, Chris Reeve, or a number of other manufacturers. It defeats the purpose of having a contract with the manufacturer to begin with. This was proven the case with Benchmade when they disallowed any and all manufacturers to offer any coupon codes or discounts "see price in cart".

 

[Claude_88]

That is not the case with ZT, Benchmade, Chris Reeve, or a number of other manufacturers. It defeats the purpose of having a contract with the manufacturer to begin with. This was proven the case with Benchmade when they disallowed any and all manufacturers to offer any coupon codes or discounts "see price in cart".

I personally experienced the reality of the situation, as correctly stated by you, whilst purchasing a Benchmade from Cabela's in Wichita, Kansas. As was the case of most of the Benchmades they carried, only the showcase item, was in stock. I had formerly bought an unboxed showcase CRKT, with a few tiny scratches, at an appreciably discounted price. Thinking the same would apply to the unboxed showcase Benchmade I was purchasing, I requested a comparable discount, as it had a few small scratches and no box. The manager politely said regretfully no and specifically referenced having his hands tied by Benchmade and consequently unable to sell it at a price that would otherwise definitely be discounted.

 

[JohnWE]

They used to call that price fixing.