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Plenty of people rag on CS for using 420 but their heat treat is the best in the industry.
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Cold steel goes 420 and Axis in their new products.
- Thread starter Bart student
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King grinch ... even perfectly heat-treathed 420 is not gonna cut good. 420 is very cheap, as it is the main steel used in foodpreparation in industry. For larger compnanies, it's about as cheap as 440-B, Which is much better in my opinion.
San mai is no more then a showpiece. It'll have the same properties as a Aus-8 blade, except the lamination line. If their made out of Aus-8 and 420.....which I think is not correct because these steels are very similar, and when forgewelded in a vacuum, carbonmigration will make these two steels the same. No way you can bring out a lamination line. Damasteel has a pattern because of difference in Nickel or another included metal between the two steels.
Cold steel must have a very good PR-guy, because selling 420 stuff at that price....Maybe they just wanna make a lot of money before people find out just how bad this steel is.
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San mai is no more then a showpiece. It'll have the same properties as a Aus-8 blade, except the lamination line. If their made out of Aus-8 and 420.....which I think is not correct because these steels are very similar, and when forgewelded in a vacuum, carbonmigration will make these two steels the same. No way you can bring out a lamination line. Damasteel has a pattern because of difference in Nickel or another included metal between the two steels.
Cold steel must have a very good PR-guy, because selling 420 stuff at that price....Maybe they just wanna make a lot of money before people find out just how bad this steel is.
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> CS using Aus-8 and 420 for San Mai at least
I'm pretty sure that was what the factory rep said, I went to check, but as previously mentioned the whole forum is gone.
> 420 steel
The reality is for me, and the things I cut, 420 would probably be OK. For probably 80% of all the knife using population it's probably OK too.
That doesn't mean I'd give up my "better" knives though.
DaveH
I'm pretty sure that was what the factory rep said, I went to check, but as previously mentioned the whole forum is gone.
> 420 steel
The reality is for me, and the things I cut, 420 would probably be OK. For probably 80% of all the knife using population it's probably OK too.
That doesn't mean I'd give up my "better" knives though.
DaveH
Try http://www.coldsteel.com/Recon1.html.
Who would spend the same money as a Benchmade AxisLock with ATS-34, M2, or 154CM and G10 or T-6061 for AUS8A and Zytel?
Answer - someone who knows nothing about knife quality.
Sounds like predatory practices to me. Oh well, I've never bought any of their products, though the "Proof" video one of the reps gave me was somewhat entertaining.
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Who would spend the same money as a Benchmade AxisLock with ATS-34, M2, or 154CM and G10 or T-6061 for AUS8A and Zytel?
Answer - someone who knows nothing about knife quality.
Sounds like predatory practices to me. Oh well, I've never bought any of their products, though the "Proof" video one of the reps gave me was somewhat entertaining.
------------------
Knowledge without understanding is knowledge wasted.
Understanding without knowledge is a rare gift - but not an impossibility.
For the impossible is always possible through faith. - Bathroom graffiti, gas station, Grey, TN, Dec, 1988
AKTI Member #A000831
It is sad that CS has downgraded their steel for whatever reason(and I'm sure they had their reasons). But these new offerings aren't exactly utility focused, especially the subhilt model.
Through training, I know that it is foolish to think that someone carrying what you think is a low quality knife is not a threat or isn't aware of good quality in a knife. Several of the people I've met who train in a blade combative system carry what many forumites would snicker at, however most of these people do know what higher quality is, and they know that there is a high risk of needing to ditch/destroy their highend $300+ piece or having it confiscated permanently. Disposability can be a good quality in certain circumstances/applications.
I don't know if this is what CS is trying to accomplish, but that is how I'm going to take it.
IMO,
Ken
Through training, I know that it is foolish to think that someone carrying what you think is a low quality knife is not a threat or isn't aware of good quality in a knife. Several of the people I've met who train in a blade combative system carry what many forumites would snicker at, however most of these people do know what higher quality is, and they know that there is a high risk of needing to ditch/destroy their highend $300+ piece or having it confiscated permanently. Disposability can be a good quality in certain circumstances/applications.
I don't know if this is what CS is trying to accomplish, but that is how I'm going to take it.
IMO,
Ken
Is that really the long term trend? If I don't misremember the Outdoorsman was 440A and the Master Hunter 440C (I've also a vague memory that 440B was used, anyone got an old brochure?), was that really that much better, relatively speaking, than AUS-8 and whatever 420 they use is today?
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I'm not one to be too picky about steels and their compositions, unless they are radically lower than what is largely available on the better quality production pieces out there.
I'm not all that upset that CS moved to 420, but a move down in even a small increment would be kind of sad for a company who prides itself on the materials they use.
As far as composition/quality of 420 in relation to other steels, I've looked at the numbers, but that doesn't do too much for me. I'll have to see and feel what it does(in context to it's purpose) before I pass too harsh a judgement.
IMO,
Ken
I'm not all that upset that CS moved to 420, but a move down in even a small increment would be kind of sad for a company who prides itself on the materials they use.
As far as composition/quality of 420 in relation to other steels, I've looked at the numbers, but that doesn't do too much for me. I'll have to see and feel what it does(in context to it's purpose) before I pass too harsh a judgement.
IMO,
Ken
Is it possible that 420V is the steel they are using, and their webmaster just did not add the V. If that is possible what kind steel is 420V?
Or is this the reason the cold steel forum was closed, so they do not have to answer questions about these new developments?
Darkjedi
Happy Holidays
Or is this the reason the cold steel forum was closed, so they do not have to answer questions about these new developments?
Darkjedi
Happy Holidays
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I have no complaints about Cold Steel sticking to the lucrative low to mid end market. Heck, I like their inexpensive "thrasher" knives like the Bushman.
I just wish they would reflect it in their prices accordingly rather than trying to fool people into thinking they are getting superior products at such outlandish prices.
They are going to end up being abandoned by both high, and low, ends of the market. I think Lynn Thompson should fire the dud in charge of marketing over there (unless it's Lynn himself) and hire someone more competent. They need to rethink either their markets, products, or both. My two cents.
I just wish they would reflect it in their prices accordingly rather than trying to fool people into thinking they are getting superior products at such outlandish prices.
They are going to end up being abandoned by both high, and low, ends of the market. I think Lynn Thompson should fire the dud in charge of marketing over there (unless it's Lynn himself) and hire someone more competent. They need to rethink either their markets, products, or both. My two cents.
Given the prices I sincerely doubt it's 420V. I don't think 420J2 is a good enough steel to use in a knife. It's too soft to form into a blade that cuts well (i.e., won't stand up to an aggressive geometry), and it's too soft to hold a decent edge. I also don't think it's a high-quality enough steel to benefit from a good heat-treat, as 440A is said to. That said about stainless steels, I hope that Cold Steel continues to produce knives in Carbon V, as this is a steel I've found to consistently sharpen well and hold a good edge.