I am a new member but am interested in knowing is C.S.'s hype Fact or Fiction? C.S. makes some advertising claims that most people call hype. Is it hype fact or fiction? And has anyone stepped up to take his challenge? If so who? and what was the ouotcome? If no one is able to disprove thier hype then shoould one bash them for it?
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Cold Steel hype Fact or Fiction
- Thread starter eaglehi1
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Well, I own three Cold Steel knives... their LTC Kukri, the Bushman and I gave my Mother the 7" kitchen knife. Now I have yet to take the rest of the knives I own and run them through a car door beside my CS knives, but I can tell you how I have found them in use. The kitchen knife is amazing. It cuts through any soft material (NO BONES!!! IT'S NOT A CLEAVER OR A BONING BLADE!) with great ease and has yet to show signs of dulling (I gave it to my mother this past Mother's Day.) The Bushman is really quite a knife. I first turned it into a spear and boy was that fun to throw! The steel is easy to get REALLY SHARP too. It's a great knife for the price. It's also my dad's knife of choice when cutting insulation!. I love my LTC Kukri. I took it 4x4ing a while ago and when we were hiking around a lake, all branches in my way, some close to 3/4" thick, disappeared with one stroke. I think the Rockwell on that knife is less than, say, a hunting knife, but a softer blade is important for a knife designed for hacking. Oh, I just remembered that we had a roll of old carpet here that had a diameter of an icecream bucket and I used my kukri to hack that in half to fit better in the garbage. Once I go the cut started it zipped through the carpet easily. With the steel being softer too (and softer is a relative word; it's softer than a Cold Steel SRK- steel is steel and that means it's pretty damn hard compared to most things we interact with daily!) it doesn't take long to touch up the edge on my Spyderco Sharpmaker or a steel (I here ceramic rods are great on kukris too..) Well, that's enough for my lecture on my CS knives! I'm going to bed- it's past 4:00 already!
I think, as with most things the truth is somewhere in between. I have several Cold Steel knives, The Master Hunter in Carbon V, The Trailmaster in Carbon V, and several others. The Master Hunter and Trailmaster both have wonderful steel, but the geometery of the Master Hunter makes it almost unsuable. The Trailmaster is a good BIG knife, but I guess I have little use for a big knife.
Mike
Mike
I have several CS knives and most recently picked up a Bush Ranger and another MH. The bush ranger I can take it or leave it. Very hard to sharpen even on a bench stone. The MH is the second one I own and I think it is a great design in a hunting knife. If they put a different handle on it, I think alot of the forumites would say it is a great self defense or back up knife. My MH will cut like a straight razor and holds a great edge. Very pleased with it. Now if only for the Bush Ranger I could say the same thing. Oh yea I own an older Voyager clip point, still pretty darn good too.
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- Aug 11, 1999
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- 1,111
Lynn Thompson definitely walks in the Great American Tradition of hype, but Cold Steel does make a quality product at very reasonable prices. Is the Trailmaster really better than Busse's Battle Mistress? I doubt it, but I don't care; and moreover, even if it is false, I doubt TM owners will feel cheated on the quality they got for the $ they paid.
I owned a Master Hunter which I liked very much. Definitely one of the best all-round knives for the money. I've used the SRK too, and found it to be a very good knife.
That said, my own feeling is that CS's heavy promotion of "tactical" designs do get in the way of making a more all-round useful knife. Sure, you can whittle and prep food w/a tanto, but it's not the most ideal. I've also never gone for the bigger knives because they all (or most?) have double guards, which seems at best "optional" these days, even for tactical designs. For me, this counts as the effects of hype; for others for whom these things aren't a concern, CS no doubt offers an awesome tool.
(Sunday morning, ramble, ramble....)
Glen
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"What's so funny 'bout peace, love, and understanding?" -Elvis Costello
I owned a Master Hunter which I liked very much. Definitely one of the best all-round knives for the money. I've used the SRK too, and found it to be a very good knife.
That said, my own feeling is that CS's heavy promotion of "tactical" designs do get in the way of making a more all-round useful knife. Sure, you can whittle and prep food w/a tanto, but it's not the most ideal. I've also never gone for the bigger knives because they all (or most?) have double guards, which seems at best "optional" these days, even for tactical designs. For me, this counts as the effects of hype; for others for whom these things aren't a concern, CS no doubt offers an awesome tool.
(Sunday morning, ramble, ramble....)
Glen
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"What's so funny 'bout peace, love, and understanding?" -Elvis Costello
Take a look at the famous picture of four guys hanging off of the end of a Trailmaster. Note that there is a large hex-key driven through the lanyard hole of the knife. Why? Because without this, the Kraton would slip off of the tang like a wet sock.
This sums up CS advertising for me. The knives are tough, they're decent cutters, and CS rarely, if ever, openly lies about them. But they do frequently present half-truths or neglect to mention certain things. They rarely give any standard for comparison; they never drive some other knife through a car door, put some other knife in a vice and hang weights off of it, or try to cut a free-hanging rope with a competitor's knife. So without something for comparison, how can we really know what's impressive? And in the few times they do make direct comparisons (e.g. to the Gerber A-F folder), they pick an obvious "straw man."
Simply put, you're better off ignoring what CS has to say and asking folks here about each specific knife. This board is a great source of info for honest, no-holds-barred evaluations of any knife out there. With 3500 members and none of them on the CS payroll, you'll get "the whole truth" here.
-Drew
This sums up CS advertising for me. The knives are tough, they're decent cutters, and CS rarely, if ever, openly lies about them. But they do frequently present half-truths or neglect to mention certain things. They rarely give any standard for comparison; they never drive some other knife through a car door, put some other knife in a vice and hang weights off of it, or try to cut a free-hanging rope with a competitor's knife. So without something for comparison, how can we really know what's impressive? And in the few times they do make direct comparisons (e.g. to the Gerber A-F folder), they pick an obvious "straw man."
Simply put, you're better off ignoring what CS has to say and asking folks here about each specific knife. This board is a great source of info for honest, no-holds-barred evaluations of any knife out there. With 3500 members and none of them on the CS payroll, you'll get "the whole truth" here.
-Drew
- Joined
- Jul 9, 1999
- Messages
- 3,316
Cold Steel has some product that are exceptional performers for the price and some product that is pure crap!
I can say this with impunity because I own more than 20 items from their lineup.
I've used their stuff a lot in the last 10 years and you need to ask about specific items from their lineup to get a good assesment of actual using worth.
For example, I love the SRK and the Trailmaster, they are real performers, but I hate that POS Cordura sheath that comes with'em. TOO FLIMSY. I've not had any real difficulty with the Kraton handles thus far, but I believe the reliable sources here on the Forums that have problems with it, so now I'm watching for those possible problems to occur.
I have a real problem with their Voyager series of late. My Scimitar has developed this nasty little vertical play in the open position.
The edge holding on their AUS8A blades is mediocre because they are sacrificing edge holding for toughness. Spyderco seems to be able to get better performance from AUS8A because they harden it to Rc 57-59, compared to CS's Rc 57. Sure it's only a point or two, but it does make a difference.
I would rather have a little more edge holding than toughness in a Zytel folder as I don't plan on bending my knife to 30 degrees anyway. It's a knife, not a prybar.
Rant mode...off.
Oh well, the other's are right. Don't believe the hype, ask here and you will get answers.
Good Luck!
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If it's stupid but works, then it isn't stupid.
I can say this with impunity because I own more than 20 items from their lineup.
I've used their stuff a lot in the last 10 years and you need to ask about specific items from their lineup to get a good assesment of actual using worth.
For example, I love the SRK and the Trailmaster, they are real performers, but I hate that POS Cordura sheath that comes with'em. TOO FLIMSY. I've not had any real difficulty with the Kraton handles thus far, but I believe the reliable sources here on the Forums that have problems with it, so now I'm watching for those possible problems to occur.
I have a real problem with their Voyager series of late. My Scimitar has developed this nasty little vertical play in the open position.
The edge holding on their AUS8A blades is mediocre because they are sacrificing edge holding for toughness. Spyderco seems to be able to get better performance from AUS8A because they harden it to Rc 57-59, compared to CS's Rc 57. Sure it's only a point or two, but it does make a difference.
I would rather have a little more edge holding than toughness in a Zytel folder as I don't plan on bending my knife to 30 degrees anyway. It's a knife, not a prybar.
Rant mode...off.
Oh well, the other's are right. Don't believe the hype, ask here and you will get answers.
Good Luck!
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If it's stupid but works, then it isn't stupid.
The Cold Steel knives I have owned and used have been excellant, but not without their flaws. I agree with those who said the "Proof" stunts are pretty well meaningless without full disclosure and a reasonable comparison to other similar knives. By the way, that objection applies to Busse advertising too, however well their knives perform.
Anyway, the Trailmaster in carbon V is a fabulous knife. Yes, the sheath is lousy: I had one made in leather by John Freeman in Canada. My main complaint is how easily and how quickly it rusts- no, pits - in the field. I have also noticed that the Magnum Tanto in SanMai III chips relatively easily, although it still is a very beautifully balanced knife. But at these prices you're getting into custom territory.
Anyway, the Trailmaster in carbon V is a fabulous knife. Yes, the sheath is lousy: I had one made in leather by John Freeman in Canada. My main complaint is how easily and how quickly it rusts- no, pits - in the field. I have also noticed that the Magnum Tanto in SanMai III chips relatively easily, although it still is a very beautifully balanced knife. But at these prices you're getting into custom territory.
- Joined
- Apr 7, 1999
- Messages
- 514
These are the CS knives I have:
Master hunter
Bush ranger
bushman
vaquero large
Ever knife had a flaw of some sort. The master hunter was not ground correctly, so the blade looks like it is bent slightly to the right. The Bush ranger came with a mirror polished edge, but it would not shave! I couldn't figure it out since the edge felt sharp to the touch. I roughed it up with a medium ceramic stick and it works fine now. The Bushman had a heat warp which caused the blade to curve to the left, and it came all rusty. The vaquero large was great except for some play in the blade. Overall the best knife would probably be the master hunter since it has the best edge, and it comes with the best sheath made from concealex.
Master hunter
Bush ranger
bushman
vaquero large
Ever knife had a flaw of some sort. The master hunter was not ground correctly, so the blade looks like it is bent slightly to the right. The Bush ranger came with a mirror polished edge, but it would not shave! I couldn't figure it out since the edge felt sharp to the touch. I roughed it up with a medium ceramic stick and it works fine now. The Bushman had a heat warp which caused the blade to curve to the left, and it came all rusty. The vaquero large was great except for some play in the blade. Overall the best knife would probably be the master hunter since it has the best edge, and it comes with the best sheath made from concealex.
- Joined
- Oct 4, 1998
- Messages
- 529
Here are the CS knives that I own...
LTC (2)
Ghurka Kukri
ATC
Vaquero Grande
Scimitar
Bushman
Culloden (carbon V)
Bush Ranger (carbon V)
Para Edge (spear point)
Pro Flight Thrower
Sure Flight Thrower
Mini Flight Thrower
I have never found any defects or flaws in any of them. My favorite and most used is the LTC. CS products are hard to beat for the $$$$.
The advertising is probably meant a little tongue in cheek. Sure it's a little over the top, but isn't that what advertising/propoganda is all about?
The bottom line is that CS makes a high quality product. My suggestion is to get a couple and judge for yourself.
The questions you need to ask here on this forum are what knives are better suited for certain tasks in the CS line. Find out which knives you need for whatever it is you intend to do, get the knife and then judge for yourself.
Orion
LTC (2)
Ghurka Kukri
ATC
Vaquero Grande
Scimitar
Bushman
Culloden (carbon V)
Bush Ranger (carbon V)
Para Edge (spear point)
Pro Flight Thrower
Sure Flight Thrower
Mini Flight Thrower
I have never found any defects or flaws in any of them. My favorite and most used is the LTC. CS products are hard to beat for the $$$$.
The advertising is probably meant a little tongue in cheek. Sure it's a little over the top, but isn't that what advertising/propoganda is all about?
The bottom line is that CS makes a high quality product. My suggestion is to get a couple and judge for yourself.
The questions you need to ask here on this forum are what knives are better suited for certain tasks in the CS line. Find out which knives you need for whatever it is you intend to do, get the knife and then judge for yourself.
Orion
not2sharp
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 1999
- Messages
- 20,399
I have owned a number of cold steel knives. They are good upper level production knives.
The finish is a little less than I use to get from Al Mar on their Fixed Blades, and quality can vary from example to example (some examples come sharper than others knives of the same model etc.) But many of the designs are good and carbon V steel is a good grade of steel.
Just shop with caution - their catalog includes some low grade junk knives. Where possible it would be worth examining several copies of the knife you want to select the best example.
The finish is a little less than I use to get from Al Mar on their Fixed Blades, and quality can vary from example to example (some examples come sharper than others knives of the same model etc.) But many of the designs are good and carbon V steel is a good grade of steel.
Just shop with caution - their catalog includes some low grade junk knives. Where possible it would be worth examining several copies of the knife you want to select the best example.
I've had a few cold steel knives in the past, and my experience is that when they're good, they're often the best buy for the buck. That is, if money matters to you, and you don't want to spend over $100 (actually over $60 once you go to the discount houses) for a folder, then Cold Steel is frequently the best performance per dollar. I've had a couple mess-ups, but I've never had any problem exchanging a recently purchased Cold Steel knife, especially for a factory-related flaw.
Again, though I've had great experiences, some people have found some real CS stinkers, so ask around on a knife-by-knife basis.
Again, though I've had great experiences, some people have found some real CS stinkers, so ask around on a knife-by-knife basis.
- Joined
- Jul 9, 1999
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- 1,211
ColdSteel makes the best for the money I think. I believe that Lynn Thompson is after the mass market. ColdSteel sells generally good quality knives at a price that appeals to those who are not "knife nuts". His knives are an excellent value for the money. They hold an edge well enough for me and more importantly, are so easy to resharpen that even I can make them shaving sharp! All knives dull, as far as I'm concerned the best is one whose edge can be restored in 15 minutes with a Lansky Sharpener.
Longbow, do you know of any good traditional archery forums out there? I already know of Traditional Archery Magazine.
Longbow, do you know of any good traditional archery forums out there? I already know of Traditional Archery Magazine.
- Joined
- May 8, 1999
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- 759
I own a number of Cold Steel knives...
The tantos are my favorite. I have 2 Master Tanto's (1 old style and 1 new style), and a Magnum Tanto with the 7.5" blade. I love the design, and the San Mai III steel rocks!! They are also very easy to get shaving-sharp with my Spyderco sharpener. The Recon Scout is another I own, but I have not used it as much. The SRK rides in my car as an emergency knife. The Recon Tanto is one of my pack knives, along with the Ghurka Light Khukri. This beast is great for chopping up firewood (not to mention decapitating the unlucky enemy sentry!) I used to own a Defender push dagger, but the usefulness of it was limited.
I'll agree on the sheath issue. The nylon things are crap! However, the tanto series has a nice leather sheath that works well.
Do I like CS knives, yes, but I like other knives better. You can't beat the prices on CS products, especially the 2nds. If I'm going to intentionally abuse a knife, it's going to be a CS 2nd. I've used the side of my SRK blade to drive nails before. It ruined the powdercoat, but did I care? Hell no! It only cost $30--easily replacable. Now I'm rambling, so I'll leave you with this: Believe the hype if you want to ruin your knife.
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"They sicken of the calm, who know the storm."
RFrost5746@aol.com or Robert_Frost@ars.aon.com
[This message has been edited by rfrost (edited 06 October 1999).]
The tantos are my favorite. I have 2 Master Tanto's (1 old style and 1 new style), and a Magnum Tanto with the 7.5" blade. I love the design, and the San Mai III steel rocks!! They are also very easy to get shaving-sharp with my Spyderco sharpener. The Recon Scout is another I own, but I have not used it as much. The SRK rides in my car as an emergency knife. The Recon Tanto is one of my pack knives, along with the Ghurka Light Khukri. This beast is great for chopping up firewood (not to mention decapitating the unlucky enemy sentry!) I used to own a Defender push dagger, but the usefulness of it was limited.
I'll agree on the sheath issue. The nylon things are crap! However, the tanto series has a nice leather sheath that works well.
Do I like CS knives, yes, but I like other knives better. You can't beat the prices on CS products, especially the 2nds. If I'm going to intentionally abuse a knife, it's going to be a CS 2nd. I've used the side of my SRK blade to drive nails before. It ruined the powdercoat, but did I care? Hell no! It only cost $30--easily replacable. Now I'm rambling, so I'll leave you with this: Believe the hype if you want to ruin your knife.
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"They sicken of the calm, who know the storm."
RFrost5746@aol.com or Robert_Frost@ars.aon.com
[This message has been edited by rfrost (edited 06 October 1999).]
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
- Joined
- Oct 9, 1998
- Messages
- 75,382
The hype divides into two categories, so what and #&%*@! I'll just give one example for each:
So What?
It can pierce a car door -- so what? Practically any knife made can pierce a car door, including folders selling for less than $4.
#&%*@!
AUS8 is the best stainless steel available -- #&%*@! Read these forums a while and you'll find not one of us believes that.
Unlike most companies that use those kinds of advertising claims, most Cold Steel products are not worthless junk; in fact many consider them reasonably good value for the money. However, most CS knives have Kraton handles, and Kraton dissolves in DEET. If you don't use DEET, well, Kraton also wears rapidly, peels off, tears, and lets fluids inside to rust the tang even before the handle is damaged.
-Cougar Allen :{)
So What?
It can pierce a car door -- so what? Practically any knife made can pierce a car door, including folders selling for less than $4.
#&%*@!
AUS8 is the best stainless steel available -- #&%*@! Read these forums a while and you'll find not one of us believes that.
Unlike most companies that use those kinds of advertising claims, most Cold Steel products are not worthless junk; in fact many consider them reasonably good value for the money. However, most CS knives have Kraton handles, and Kraton dissolves in DEET. If you don't use DEET, well, Kraton also wears rapidly, peels off, tears, and lets fluids inside to rust the tang even before the handle is damaged.
-Cougar Allen :{)