Cold Steel Paradox

swedgie said:
I don't WANT a flipping balisong, but the Paradox looks to have the potential of being about as strong a folder as you can get. It's about 6oz with the stainless milled handles and looks to be very solid. The springs look strong & tight. In fact, just about the only thing keeping me from clicking "buy now" is the possibility that those springs may be too tight and make it difficult - or even dangerous - to open & close easily. Think it'll be clumsy? Has anyone actually owned or handled this thing? Thanks for the feedback! Enjoy your knives.
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Swedgie, to answer your original question, yes - according to what I've read, a balisong-style of knife (two handles that open and close around the blade) is supposed to be the strongest of the folders; because it doesn't rely on any parts engagement to lock. The only way to unintentionally fold it is if the pins actually break, which (all other things being equal, like the material from which they are made) is less likely to happen than two metal parts disengaging for one reason or another. That is my untested understanding of what I've heard and read.

I just handled a Paradox at the Nation's Gun Show on Saturday. It was the Grivory model; but even then it felt very solid. It's literally like two slipjoint handles with a blade in between them. Picture opening a stiff SAK...now picture doing it with each handle...that's what it felt like. The handles did not completely meet when they closed around the blade...there was a slight gap. It's not an issue; the blade was covered; but I'm wondering if that had something to do with the tension bar design. They met just fine when the knife was opened, so I didn't give it another thought. I debated buying one; but she only had the Grivory handle; and I want the original. I'll probably order it online. In my opinion, if you are looking for a balisong-style knife for the purpose of the locking strength, the Paradox will probably meet your needs.

I cannot speak to Vicarious Reality's comment about the edge hitting the tension bar; but I wouldn't discount it. I can't see where it would be any different from closing any slipjoint, though. I'll definitely check for that, the next time I pick one up.
 
Planterz said:
With the Paradox however, the only advantage is the "lock" strength.
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Actually, now I don't think this is true. The Paradox spring mechanism with the pivot is nothing like a balisong, but more like a slipjoint. A balisong uses either a pin in the tang or pins in the handles (zen pins) to keep everything where it's supposed to be.

If you watch the video CS put up on the Paradox, you can see where and how the knife fails under an extreme load.

[youtube]N_9csauQ7HE[/youtube]
(skip to about 3:20)

A true balisong wouldn't fail like that. To make a balisong break with that kind of "test" would require the handle itself to snap or shear. Probably where the pin hits them - called the tang cups, or if it's the kind with zen pins, probably where the pins are, or at the pivots themselves, as those spots would be the weakest.
 
Planterz said:
Actually, now I don't think this is true. The Paradox spring mechanism with the pivot is nothing like a balisong, but more like a slipjoint. A balisong uses either a pin in the tang or pins in the handles (zen pins) to keep everything where it's supposed to be.

If you watch the video CS put up on the Paradox, you can see where and how the knife fails under an extreme load.

A true balisong wouldn't fail like that. To make a balisong break with that kind of "test" would require the handle itself to snap or shear. Probably where the pin hits them - called the tang cups, or if it's the kind with zen pins, probably where the pins are, or at the pivots themselves, as those spots would be the weakest.
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I'm not sure I'm following, Planterz. It looked to me like the Paradox had pins in the same place as a balisong; it just has springs, as well, while a true balisong swings freely. And in watching the video, it looked like the Paradox started to move in the same way a balisong would. The handle dropped because the handle parts shifted, as there was nothing gripping them together; but the pins held as they would on any balisong. I wouldn't say the knife "failed" as much as two independent parts shifted in place until the top handle piece stopped where it hit the base of the tang...at which point, the weight was resting in large part on the top pin. I wouldn't call that a "fail" at all.
 
I had one but sold it, no real reason, just that I wasn't carrying it and I wanted to use the money for something else. It was about the same tension as a slipjoint to open, easy with two hands and I liked the long elliptical and hollow ground blade. It was a very nice slicer, and felt really sturdy.
 
BlackKnight86 said:
I'm not sure I'm following, Planterz. It looked to me like the Paradox had pins in the same place as a balisong; it just has springs, as well, while a true balisong swings freely. And in watching the video, it looked like the Paradox started to move in the same way a balisong would. The handle dropped because the handle parts shifted, as there was nothing gripping them together; but the pins held as they would on any balisong. I wouldn't say the knife "failed" as much as two independent parts shifted in place until the top handle piece stopped where it hit the base of the tang...at which point, the weight was resting in large part on the top pin. I wouldn't call that a "fail" at all.
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OK, after looking it over again, I think I see what Planterz is saying. He's not talking about the point of pivot; he's talking about the stopping pins. In the video, the top handle is hyper-extended; so something failed to stop it or got pushed out of the way when the handle reached 180 degrees.

So that would raise two questions: first, what failed to stop the motion of the handle, and why; and second, why did it only fail to 40 degrees past the horizontal? That is still a strong design, given the weight.
 
Now my question is- what if someone got ride of the springs and all that bs after they bought it, put it back together- then wouldn't that have a latchless balisong?
 
XanRa said:
Now my question is- what if someone got ride of the springs and all that bs after they bought it, put it back together- then wouldn't that have a latchless balisong?
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People have tried. Apparently it can't be done.
 
Really? Cut the pins, pull the springs out, then replace the pins with torx screws? Or am I missing something?
Just curious...
 
theres no tang or zen pins so the only thing stopping the handles while swinging freely would be the opposing pivot pin, this also answers why it bent at a 40degree angle and stopped the handle hit the opposite pivot pin.

now if you drilled and tapped the blade and added some tang pins or welded a bit onto the blade and put zen pins in it would be a full fledge bali, though that would still leave an opening where the spring was, but i dont know if that would affect any as i dont have the model in hand, but now that ive talked about this i kinda want to turn it into a proper bali

edit: there is a chunk of metal missing where the normal tang and tang pins would be so you would have to cold weld a chunk of metal onto the bottom for any pins to work, which doing so would run the risk of ruining the temper on that Aus8
 
brets-ftw said:
theres no tang or zen pins so the only thing stopping the handles while swinging freely would be the opposing pivot pin, this also answers why it bent at a 40degree angle and stopped the handle hit the opposite pivot pin.

now if you drilled and tapped the blade and added some tang pins or welded a bit onto the blade and put zen pins in it would be a full fledge bali, though that would still leave an opening where the spring was, but i dont know if that would affect any as i dont have the model in hand, but now that ive talked about this i kinda want to turn it into a proper bali

edit: there is a chunk of metal missing where the normal tang and tang pins would be so you would have to cold weld a chunk of metal onto the bottom for any pins to work, which doing so would run the risk of ruining the temper on that Aus8
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Duh! Completely forgot about the tang pin issue... I guess the safest way would be drill for one welding would be risky
 
the problem is that there isnt anything to drill into unless you add some jb stick weld, or some kind of epoxy/plaster substance to the bottom to make a complete tang
 
CS made the knife so it couldn't be modified into a balisong. Of course, nothing is impossible, but in this case it's impractical to the point of being pointless. All the time, effort, materials, and money put into doing it would have been better spent just buying a Kimura or BM42 (even at its inflated price).
 
probably but seeing at how limited the balisong shopping list is for production and semi production items itll just add a different flavor, but just to check

(kimura will be used at a $85 price point and BM42 at $280 because thats what i hear Bm is telling the dealers to sell the new ones at)

jb stick weld - $5
7.2v drill w/ carbide tip - $45
CS paradox grivory (aluminum)[5 1/2in aluminum] - $64.99(129.99)[144.99]
pinstock (stainless 6in) - $1
metal hack saw - $5
silver paint (just to get the jb weld to match) - $3
1qt elbow grease - $(insert cost of food)
patience, perseverance and a get'er done attitude - Priceless

for everything else these china

but seriously if everything is added not including the non grivory paradoxi, paint or food itll come to about $120. Now i could say that most guys have a drill and a hack saw to use for projects like this, the pinstock is a specialty order but its still not that expensive, so without the drill (still including a $3 bit) thats about $83 so a little under the goal for the kimura and still way under the 42.

i doubt itll flip as well but again the idea wasn't to make a perfect flipper, just to make a functioning bali that adds some more flavor to the bali community which while there are definitely some great ones out there i find the customs far exceed the production and semi production models in both number and desirability. so what can i say, i like my odds and im not really known for going with the flow, i flip a spyderfly for cryin out loud. but im sure itll be an interesting bali if this is ever done, speaking of which i now want to do it, once i get some cash flow that is lol

Now like you said planterz it will take quite a bit of effort. but i feel that effort is needed because it seems lost in my generation, weve become more concerned with getting the latest and greatest over keeping the old still going, take my 1980 suzuki gs1000g for example, i paid 800 for it, its probably worth little more then that, it was a frame, motor and a lot of jimmy rigged electronics, ridable but not trustworthy, so how is it now? well its a rolling total, already cleaned the carbs, removed jimmy riggs and added stock parts flooded the carbs, blew a head gasket and replaced the tires and guess what? its my bike, and itll keep going till the day i die

pride in your possessions is the phrase i was looking for
 
god i wouldnt own one of those if CS paid ME, Just a balisong... who cares about the legality as long as its just in your own home, otherwise get a real knife knife like a zero tolerance, or even a coldsteel pocket bushman if your looking for a tough big knife on the cheap.
 
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