Cold Steel Triad Lock Spring, Strongerr Than Necessary?

[benchwarmer380]

My Lawman came solid and sharp and has broken in quite nicely. I can easily press the lock in with my index finger and flick it out. Definitely about a stout as a folder could be.

Here's two little Tri-ad stories for ya.

I was clipping some hedges in the back yard and there was a branch that needed to be chopped in half. Instead of grabbing something more appropriate, I used the Lawman in my pocket. (It's been a while since it got a workout.) Took about 10 minutes or so no worries. Later, after about 5 minutes of sharpening I closed it and noticed a good amount of wiggle in the blade. Opened it back up and nothing. Solid as ever. Close it again it wiggled. Tightened up the pivot its good to go.

My next one has a Dragonfly in it. While my Lawman has a very strong lock its very easy to take apart and put back together. I was extremely surprised the first time I did it. My brother left his G10 Dragonfly in pieces for nearly a week cause it was such a pain. He brought it over and it took a set of pliers and two pairs of hands to get that sucker together. He gave me a Buck 110 as a thank you.

 

[dkb45]

I had and no longer have a few CS knives because the locks are literal pain to disengage. They could use a redesign for spring tension. Yeah, it does eventually loosen up, but if the knife is painful before that time, unless you absolutely love it you are else's likely to keep it.

As for the "Sharpest" claim, I have to call bullfeces. I had one very sharp CS knife, and that was one that was sharpened on an Edge Pro before it came to me. The others were... not. My Mini Pendleton actually didn't slice paper, and neither of my Counter Points would shave hair. Every CS I have handled was also remarkably average sharpened. Maybe some of their knives are the sharp, but not any that I have seen. Well, actually my Carbon V Recon Tanto was stupid sharp, but that is just one. Since there is technically no limit on how sharp a knife can be, saying your knife is the sharpest is like saying you are the best person ever- not only is the statement not true, it is also an idiotic claim to make. You can say it is the sharpest in a defined set of parameters, but being that vague is just stupid.

I should say that I am not a CS hater. Are their advertising and demos painfully goofy? Yes, but they are entertaining. The products are nice, and a few designs are actually pretty cool, but the Tri-ad lock is just not my cup of tea. I am not a CS hater, I am a Tri-ad hater. Really, I am just not a huge fan of backlocks.

 

[Goosey]

I only have Voyagers, they're not difficult to unlock but the springs are definitely significantly stronger than other lockbacks.

Personally I don't care; the solid lock-up is worth it being a bit more difficult to unlock. I've never had a pressing need to unlock my knives as fast or with as little pressure as possible and the Voyagers aren't even that bad themselves.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

I don't own a ton of triad lock knives, but I'ver never had a major problem with the lock. The worst I can say is that it's occasionally mildly obnoxious when I forget and don't depress it quite hard enough to disengage the lock. I will say that I prefer locks like the axis, arc, CBBL or compression that allow me to close a knife very quickly and easily one-handed.

 

[tillias]

I do use mine Recon 1 with *gloves* for the hard work -- no problems at all. It was really hard to fold first months without gloves but occasionally it worn down a little. If it's Drop Point please be very careful with the tip though.

update: In fact CS Recon 1 is best hard-use folder I ever had from the economical point of view. I do have Striders, ZTs... But when I need job done I always pick my Recon 1 and use it mercilessly. Nothing can happen to Tri-Ad

 

[FCM415]

Come on fellas, you can get used to disengaging a triad lock after a couple minutes of fondling. It shouldn't be that difficult.

 

[singularity35]

Come on fellas, you can get used to disengaging a triad lock after a couple minutes of fondling. It shouldn't be that difficult.

It's not the spring tension that's hard to overcome...it's the prejudice.

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

I found several Tri-Ad lock in the local shop and none was hard to unlock due to spring tension except for a Spartan.

My own XL Voyager was hard in the beginning, and when it wears in, getting easier. To a certain extend, hard to unlock can be two factor:
- Lock Sticking - it seems to contribute a lot to my XL Voyager, which is why when it wears, it's easier.
- Strong Spring - Not so bad, although it's stronger than my other normal lockback. To test spring tension is to unlock the blade, and try to press/play the spring while the blade is held in open position. That way, one can measure the spring tension without lock sticking influencing the feel.

I do agree that the advertisement is illogical at best. Who can claim sharpest in the world, if the definition of sharpest is yet there? Saying sharp and good to go for it's intended use is more appropriate. However, it's already in the marketing culture to exagerrate, so I think it's normal to say that. All of marketing stuff should be taken with LOTS of grain of salt.

PS: Chuck, I like your laughter , post#14.

 

[singularity35]

I found several Tri-Ad lock in the local shop and none was hard to unlock due to spring tension except for a Spartan.

My own XL Voyager was hard in the beginning, and when it wears in, getting easier. To a certain extend, hard to unlock can be two factor:
- Lock Sticking - it seems to contribute a lot to my XL Voyager, which is why when it wears, it's easier.
- Strong Spring - Not so bad, although it's stronger than my other normal lockback. To test spring tension is to unlock the blade, and try to press/play the spring while the blade is held in open position. That way, one can measure the spring tension without lock sticking influencing the feel.

I do agree that the advertisement is illogical at best. Who can claim sharpest in the world, if the definition of sharpest is yet there? Saying sharp and good to go for it's intended use is more appropriate. However, it's already in the marketing culture to exagerrate, so I think it's normal to say that. All of marketing stuff should be taken with LOTS of grain of salt.

PS: Chuck, I like your laughter , post#14.

Hehehe, I really did burst out laughing from Franciscomv's post.

 

[tatfiend]

I do have strong fingers but still feel that a lock spring that starts stiff but becomes much easier to operate over time is improperly heat treated and is being overstressed. About like car springs sagging in the first 1000 or so miles, not recommended. The spring on my Voyager XL is now probably too weak as it barely keeps the blade fully closed when the closed knife is held horizontally with the blade down. Yet it started with a very stiff triad lock spring.

 

[Nullity]

It's not the spring tension that's hard to overcome...it's the prejudice.

Hahaha. Well played sir.

Also, what is with people being surprised that promotional video/literature claims are embellished.
Next we will hear that someone is pissed that polar bears don't actually drink Coca Cola at christmas time...

 

[singularity35]

Hahaha. Well played sir.

Also, what is with people being surprised that promotional video/literature claims are embellished.
Next we will hear that someone is pissed that polar bears don't actually drink Coca Cola at christmas time...

Yup

 

[RevDevil]

2 words come to mind:
Weak Thumbs

 

[Poleaxe]

2 words come to mind:
Weak Thumbs

Haha Pretty much.

 

[Spidero]

The Triad lock is definitely more stiff that any regular lockbacks I have it kind of bothers me as well. And as far as the sharpness of Cold Steel knives I'm fairly certain you got a dud because every one I've ever handled has been extraordinarily sharp out of box.

Just got my first Cold Steel (Mini Recon 1). Dull out of box. Couldn't cut paper cleanly.

 

[Gaston444]

I had and no longer have a few CS knives because the locks are literal pain to disengage. They could use a redesign for spring tension. Yeah, it does eventually loosen up, but if the knife is painful before that time, unless you absolutely love it you are else's likely to keep it.

As for the "Sharpest" claim, I have to call bullfeces. I had one very sharp CS knife, and that was one that was sharpened on an Edge Pro before it came to me. The others were... not. My Mini Pendleton actually didn't slice paper, and neither of my Counter Points would shave hair. Every CS I have handled was also remarkably average sharpened. Maybe some of their knives are the sharp, but not any that I have seen. Well, actually my Carbon V Recon Tanto was stupid sharp, but that is just one.

I agree: I have owned dozens of Cold Steel knives, including the entire Tanto range up to the 7.5" Magnum Tanto (including two of the originals), and only two, plus maybe a third one, were what I would call sharp. Or, more precisely, both sufficiently thin-edged, and sharp enough in angle, to efficiently slice thin paper:

One was their Double-hump oval hole bowie Pro-Lite folder, an excellent knife, but even on that the angle could be improved: It was one of their rare ones to have a reasonably thin edge, at least when moving away from the point.

The other one was an early Aus-8 convex-edge Trailmaster I bought around 1990. It would slice in clean halves individual newspaper sheets, as you let them fall and chopped at them in mid-air, unsupported... However the convex edge was not restorable to its original condition, and this has given me an intense dislike of convex edges that has never left me. (A San Mai III Trailmaster I got last year was also convexed, but much thicker edged, and could not even remotely compare in edge thinness to the old Aus-8 I had 25 years earlier)

A possible third one was a fully serrated folding Tanto that was sharp because of the serrations...

All their other knives followed the same pattern: Tantos, Push Daggers, Peacekeeper daggers, Carbon SRKs, Recon Scout, Recon Tanto, all of them were very similar:

Highly polished edges with a very poor open angle, so that the entire impression of sharpness was heavily dependent on the polish: Since the polish would be very quickly gone, the impression you got was exactly that described by another Cold Steel owner: That the initial sharpness was gone after just one or two episodes of use.

This was not due to poor edge-holding, it was due to the combination of thick edges depending on high polish to give an impression of superficial sharpness.

This has given me, ever since, an intense dislike of highly polished edges.

Another problem I had with Cold Steel was that their Kraton handles (and I am a big fan of Kraton Handles) were not capped in metal in a protective way, sometimes not even with a metal guard, so they would look ugly quickly, and wear badly against the sheath.

I did like the leather sheaths on their Tantos, and I hope they don't drop the leather sheath on their Tai Pan dagger.

I consider them good value knives, but I have always has at least one major issue with them that I just couldn't get over, and thin slicy edges are definitely not their strong point, then or now. That being said, the more recent San Mai III SRK did seems very different from my old thick-edged flat ground Carbon V SRK of 25 years ago...: That was a pain to sharpen...

Gaston

 

[Sosa]

I hate CS too. But not enough for the walking thread. I'll sell em all I promise.

 

[Wowbagger]

Post ignored on the CS area for several days so reposted here. Is it considered too provacative or negative for CS owners?

No just proves what I have suspected. Being forced to use a certain forum effectively hides it from the general community. I am on here everyday and this is the first I have seen your post and I DO look often at the "New Posts' list which would have shown it and I have posted in the last couple of days in the CS forum but still did not see it.

Is the triad lock spring stronger than needed for secure lockup? I have seen multiple posts complaining of how strong it is on new knives and discussing methods to reduce the spring strength for easier lock operation.

No it is not too strong and yet I don't think it needs to be as powerful as it is for most people.
Does that sound confusing ? Stay tuned and I will elaborate.

The commonest one is suggesting leaving the knife partially open with the blade positioned so that the spring is held at maximum normal deflection for a period of time.

That is pure fantasy. Anyone who has studied mechanical physics or metallurgy will verify that. And . . . in a flight of desperation and against my better judgement beating me over the head with scientific FACT I tried it.

yah . . . like I said . . . nah dude, nah.

Added:

I would also like CS to drop their claim of their being the sharpest knives in the world as that is certainly not true of the CS knives I have bought recently including my new Rajah II. I HATE false advertising claims and wish that they were illegal.

My latest knives purchased from Cold Steel were seriously sharp, not to doubt that yours were not . . . I can totally believe that . . .
My Kitchen Classic paring knife was literally hair whittling.
Now get this . . . I bought another one (long story) and it was identically sharp. I then bought a similar knife that was almost identical but a different model / year. Same knife but slightly different handle texture and color . . . it was identically, hair whittling sharp.

Next I ordered and received a Ti Lite six inch. It was nearly as sharp. Pleanty good enough. Great edge for a factory knife.

So . . . some times they can be as good or better than anything else I have ever bought stock off the shelf from any other knife maker.

Moving on to the stupid difficult locks on the Cold Steel knives . . .
yah you got a good point. I have easily been able to correct this in the knives bellow. I could unlock them out of the box but after "playing with them" for a while it became impossible due to muscle fatigue or at least not mindlessly easy as a fine knife should be. I am a mechanic and work all day with my grip / hands. I there fore have a bit of an advantage over the average knife dude and still find the locks, stock out of the box, less than elegant.

The trick is to mod the mechanism with a diamond file (several different grits actually so you smooth out the surfaces after the awful deed is done).

If done right you get full strength when the lock is engaged. As you begin to unlock the blade the moded patch acts as a ramp, or cam if you will, and actually works with the travel of the blade to help you unlock it further.

I have done this to the following knives and can "play with them" endlessly and not become overly finger fatigued. Note there are two different lock designs represented.

YMMV

If you are not "handy" take or send the knives to a blade smith. I am NOT offering my services in any shape or form. There are PROs here that pay to be able to have that pleasure and you should support them.

 

[trevitrace]

I agree: I have owned dozens of Cold Steel knives, including the entire Tanto range up to the 7.5" Magnum Tanto (including two of the originals), and only two, plus maybe a third one, were what I would call sharp. Or, more precisely, both sufficiently thin-edged, and sharp enough in angle, to efficiently slice thin paper:

One was their Double-hump oval hole bowie Pro-Lite folder, an excellent knife, but even on that the angle could be improved: It was one of their rare ones to have a reasonably thin edge, at least when moving away from the point.

The other one was an early Aus-8 convex-edge Trailmaster I bought around 1990. It would slice in clean halves individual newspaper sheets, as you let them fall and chopped at them in mid-air, unsupported... However the convex edge was not restorable to its original condition, and this has given me an intense dislike of convex edges that has never left me. (A San Mai III Trailmaster I got last year was also convexed, but much thicker edged, and could not even remotely compare in edge thinness to the old Aus-8 I had 25 years earlier)

A possible third one was a fully serrated folding Tanto that was sharp because of the serrations...

All their other knives followed the same pattern: Tantos, Push Daggers, Peacekeeper daggers, Carbon SRKs, Recon Scout, Recon Tanto, all of them were very similar:

Highly polished edges with a very poor open angle, so that the entire impression of sharpness was heavily dependent on the polish: Since the polish would be very quickly gone, the impression you got was exactly that described by another Cold Steel owner: That the initial sharpness was gone after just one or two episodes of use.

This was not due to poor edge-holding, it was due to the combination of thick edges depending on high polish to give an impression of superficial sharpness.

This has given me, ever since, an intense dislike of highly polished edges.

Another problem I had with Cold Steel was that their Kraton handles (and I am a big fan of Kraton Handles) were not capped in metal in a protective way, sometimes not even with a metal guard, so they would look ugly quickly, and wear badly against the sheath.

I did like the leather sheaths on their Tantos, and I hope they don't drop the leather sheath on their Tai Pan dagger.

I consider them good value knives, but I have always has at least one major issue with them that I just couldn't get over, and thin slicy edges are definitely not their strong point, then or now. That being said, the more recent San Mai III SRK did seems very different from my old thick-edged flat ground Carbon V SRK of 25 years ago...: That was a pain to sharpen...

Gaston

Have you considered learning how to sharpen a knife or reprofile an edge yourself?

I bet it would save you loads of strife.

 

[NDJeep]

The AL is my go-to knife for work around the property. confidence inspiring toughness.
never once even thought about spring tension