- Joined
- Jun 29, 2002
- Messages
- 337
Well, what I meant to say was...they seemed to be starting to change. Of course they dont entirly cater to us...but it seemed like they met both interested parties in the middle.
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Cold Steel's Move to 440A?
- Thread starter UltraSteele
- Start date
Walking Man
BANNED
- Joined
- May 28, 2003
- Messages
- 9,606
I have never seen a knife that was made with 440B. Anyone?
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2003
- Messages
- 119
I think they are taking the wrong step and are downgrading them selfs. While the competition upgrades their steels to better ones,Cold Steel does the opposite and are down grading with cheaper and poorer steels. For the average knife buyer who does not know anything about knives,and don´t want to pay very mouch for a knife,then it´s a good move for Cold Steel to offer them cheaper knives.
But for all others,who are aware and knowledgeable knife nuts, and who only wants the best,it´s a BAD move from Cold Steels side to do such down grades of steels and quality! I realy hope NOT that this is a step from them to downgrade all their stainless knives to cheaper and lower quality, and turning their brand to a low price low quality manufacturer.
It seems like that the Carbon V products are unaffected by the current downgrades,and are still intact. The Carbon V steel is made in USA,and it can´t be made cheaper abroad,so it would be unlogical to make any changes of it. Just look at their LAREDO Bowie. It´s a new Cold Steel knife,made in USA and of Carbon V steel.Imagine instead that the Laredo bowie was made of 420 steel made in Taiwan-such horror it would be!
I think Cold Steel is making a big misstake by lower their knives to cheaper poorer steels. I want Cold Steel to go back to AUS8-A on all stainless knives,and stop the downgrading process. One thing is for sure, i will never buy anything from Cold Steel made of these low quality downgrade knives. There are other knife brands who sales similar knives with top steels,that only costs a little extra, but is far better. Hope that the folks at Cold Steel wakes up!
Manowar
But for all others,who are aware and knowledgeable knife nuts, and who only wants the best,it´s a BAD move from Cold Steels side to do such down grades of steels and quality! I realy hope NOT that this is a step from them to downgrade all their stainless knives to cheaper and lower quality, and turning their brand to a low price low quality manufacturer.
It seems like that the Carbon V products are unaffected by the current downgrades,and are still intact. The Carbon V steel is made in USA,and it can´t be made cheaper abroad,so it would be unlogical to make any changes of it. Just look at their LAREDO Bowie. It´s a new Cold Steel knife,made in USA and of Carbon V steel.Imagine instead that the Laredo bowie was made of 420 steel made in Taiwan-such horror it would be!
I think Cold Steel is making a big misstake by lower their knives to cheaper poorer steels. I want Cold Steel to go back to AUS8-A on all stainless knives,and stop the downgrading process. One thing is for sure, i will never buy anything from Cold Steel made of these low quality downgrade knives. There are other knife brands who sales similar knives with top steels,that only costs a little extra, but is far better. Hope that the folks at Cold Steel wakes up!
Manowar
Originally posted by MelancholyMutt
Cold Steel never did cater to knife knuts like us. We tend to be a picky bunch, picking the good and the bad out of lineups and identifying those who consistently make good
Picky? Try ANAL. Is the Ix tanto i just bought even going to be used? COURSE NOT!
I used to love thier stuff, and still love the knives I have, but I saw them over the last year or so, lower the quality of steels. First it was the jump from Japan to Taiwan, now this.
But I am glad, as I have moved on to Kershaw, CRKT, and especially I am glad to get back to Spyderco - my new home for some time....
But I am glad, as I have moved on to Kershaw, CRKT, and especially I am glad to get back to Spyderco - my new home for some time....
- Joined
- Jan 4, 1999
- Messages
- 3,000
I'll throw in an opinion. I can't read Lynn Thompson's mind nor do I have the same information he has. But I can tell you that, while the recession hasn't hurt the e-commerce industry (I keep knocking on wood) it has certainly changed the mix and prices of knives we sell. In 2000, when the recession started, our average invoice was $111. Doesn't mean we sold knives with an average price of $111. It means the the average of all invoices reached that number and many invoices involve more than a single knife. That average went to $108 in 2001, $98 in 2002 and is currently at $94. Does it mean knives are getting cheaper? No. It doesn't mean business is bad either. Actually, we're having our best sales year in our history.
It means that the average knife buyer is placing a smaller order on average-at least on our web site. I think this is due to the tougher economic times and, to some degree, to the growth and popularity of Taiwanese imports as a percentage of knives overall.
I think Cold Steel probaly gets similar messages from the marketplace. I'll bet they find they either sell more or earn more gross profit on knives that are a bit less expensive than before-you know, those Taiwanese imports. In other words, consumers are probably telling them they want a somewhat less expensive knife just like they are telling me through the numbers I provided above. The natural reaction to that would be to lower the average price point of the line. I don't think they will abandon their higher end products. They still provide those wonderful tantos and Black Bears. The Laredo Bowie is hardly a cheap knife. But the knives aimed at a more generally average marketplace than the group on this forum probably need to be a little less expensive based on what the market is saying. Just a guess but I'll bet I'm not too far off the mark.
I don't think it's a problem for you, by the way. Nor do I think Cold Steel will stop addressing the desires of folks like those on this forum. It's a broad product mix with a little something for everyone and a decreasing average price point overall. Sounds like it's just what the marketplace ordered up to me. Take care.
It means that the average knife buyer is placing a smaller order on average-at least on our web site. I think this is due to the tougher economic times and, to some degree, to the growth and popularity of Taiwanese imports as a percentage of knives overall.
I think Cold Steel probaly gets similar messages from the marketplace. I'll bet they find they either sell more or earn more gross profit on knives that are a bit less expensive than before-you know, those Taiwanese imports. In other words, consumers are probably telling them they want a somewhat less expensive knife just like they are telling me through the numbers I provided above. The natural reaction to that would be to lower the average price point of the line. I don't think they will abandon their higher end products. They still provide those wonderful tantos and Black Bears. The Laredo Bowie is hardly a cheap knife. But the knives aimed at a more generally average marketplace than the group on this forum probably need to be a little less expensive based on what the market is saying. Just a guess but I'll bet I'm not too far off the mark.
I don't think it's a problem for you, by the way. Nor do I think Cold Steel will stop addressing the desires of folks like those on this forum. It's a broad product mix with a little something for everyone and a decreasing average price point overall. Sounds like it's just what the marketplace ordered up to me. Take care.
Fred,Good point. Seldom does the average consumer
ever think about the reason for changes. Most , as
here, will grumble that the manufacture is not the
same in a changing economic world.
If folk's want a better more robust economy to be
able to earn more (knife) money then hold you
politcians to better account. They set policy that
we live with.
ever think about the reason for changes. Most , as
here, will grumble that the manufacture is not the
same in a changing economic world.
If folk's want a better more robust economy to be
able to earn more (knife) money then hold you
politcians to better account. They set policy that
we live with.
- Joined
- Apr 27, 1999
- Messages
- 6,117
I suspect that the change in material is because they changed contractors that make the particular knives. For example if you had knives made in Taiwan or Japan you might be using a contractor that supports AUS8. When you want to go cheaper you use a cheaper contractor, say in mainland China. The switch to 440A is incidental and provides only a small part of the cost savings. I guess the real question is to look at whether the quality is also impacted by the change. Who knows, maybe the workmanship will improve.
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2003
- Messages
- 476
Fred from Knife Outlet has said exactly what i was about to, only he's posted actual DPT numbers to support the statement. Thanks much Fred, for reinforcing my own logic.
The economy has hit most everyone that i know pretty hard, and to be frank, the majority of the ppl i talk to are outside the USA and Canada. It's a worldwide lack of good jobs, unless you're willing to work for entry-level wage. Another noticeable trend is that those seeming to suffer most, are in IT and systems industries.
Cold Steel's move to lower cost materials and production is what DELL has done with computers. Five years ago you would'nt be able to buy a computer system boasting top specs like a P4 and Radeon 9800's, also equipped with flat panel monitors for a whopping $600.00
Then again, what you bought five years ago for $5,000 is and was made a hell of alot better. And this same logic goes for just about everything, as they say "they don't make em like they used to"
I build custom computers. They don't come cheap, because i don't use cheap parts. My profits are practically NIL. Most people buy Dell's crap and don't see the logic in mine. Cold Steel may be in a position where serving the "average market" might mean the difference between staying in business, or mergers, or closing shop. In this day and age, it's quite simply, the reality of doing business. I can relate to them, as i now have to offer "Lesser" machines just to appeal to those who shop Wal-Mart for Compaqs.
I can buy, and justify, a $40 blade. I cannot buy nor justify a $400 blade. Simple as that. I know the difference between the two, but i need to eat... and steel isn't tasty.
EDIT:
Coincidentally, both Microsoft, and Dell, have shifted all technical support for hardware/software... outsourcing it to India. Cheap labor, and no help. LOL
The economy has hit most everyone that i know pretty hard, and to be frank, the majority of the ppl i talk to are outside the USA and Canada. It's a worldwide lack of good jobs, unless you're willing to work for entry-level wage. Another noticeable trend is that those seeming to suffer most, are in IT and systems industries.
Cold Steel's move to lower cost materials and production is what DELL has done with computers. Five years ago you would'nt be able to buy a computer system boasting top specs like a P4 and Radeon 9800's, also equipped with flat panel monitors for a whopping $600.00
Then again, what you bought five years ago for $5,000 is and was made a hell of alot better. And this same logic goes for just about everything, as they say "they don't make em like they used to"
I build custom computers. They don't come cheap, because i don't use cheap parts. My profits are practically NIL. Most people buy Dell's crap and don't see the logic in mine. Cold Steel may be in a position where serving the "average market" might mean the difference between staying in business, or mergers, or closing shop. In this day and age, it's quite simply, the reality of doing business. I can relate to them, as i now have to offer "Lesser" machines just to appeal to those who shop Wal-Mart for Compaqs.
I can buy, and justify, a $40 blade. I cannot buy nor justify a $400 blade. Simple as that. I know the difference between the two, but i need to eat... and steel isn't tasty.
EDIT:
Coincidentally, both Microsoft, and Dell, have shifted all technical support for hardware/software... outsourcing it to India. Cheap labor, and no help. LOL
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2002
- Messages
- 163
So I took my new Pro-Lite into work yesterday. I'm a retail manager, and I carry knives mainly to (gasp) open boxes.
Usually I carry one or two knives for a few weeks, using them fo all the various chores, and then I clean them, resharpen them, and put them away. Most knives don't need to be resharpened all that much.
Once a week we get in a truck, and I spend a day cutting boxes open, as you would expect. Most of my knives take this for 3-4 weeks before I feel they need to be resharpened.
Well, the Pro-Lite was... well not dull but clearly unhappy at the end of ONE DAY. I am very disappointed with that. I moved away from 440 some time ago. I bought into this knife becuase I believe in the superiority of Cold Steel products, but I don't think I'll be happy with this steel.
I'll be posting a review of the whole knife soon. (a few days or 1 week)
Cheers all!
Usually I carry one or two knives for a few weeks, using them fo all the various chores, and then I clean them, resharpen them, and put them away. Most knives don't need to be resharpened all that much.
Once a week we get in a truck, and I spend a day cutting boxes open, as you would expect. Most of my knives take this for 3-4 weeks before I feel they need to be resharpened.
Well, the Pro-Lite was... well not dull but clearly unhappy at the end of ONE DAY. I am very disappointed with that. I moved away from 440 some time ago. I bought into this knife becuase I believe in the superiority of Cold Steel products, but I don't think I'll be happy with this steel.
I'll be posting a review of the whole knife soon. (a few days or 1 week)
Cheers all!