Cold Steel's new items

Thanks very much 3Guardsman, for posting the new CS items! I guess they won't put this info on their retail site until later.
I always look forward to the new CS catalogue because I know it's going to include at least some new products I'm going to love.
This year's is no exception, just a cursory glance is enough for me to know there's at least half a dozen items I'm going to just have to have eventually.
I really like the change in handle shape for the new Gunsite II. I've wanted this knife for a while but held off buying it because I already have the XL tanto Voyageur which is very similar The new handle is very cool and the difference in appearance gives me an excuse for getting it.
I also love the new daggers! I wondered why CS brought out a medieval dagger poly trainer last year without actually making a steel versi

This is an exciting day for me. I'll be living in anticipation for the next few months until the products are acually available for purchase.

Lynn Thompson may be a jerk [or not] but I love his products! [ although not enough for me to kiss him on the lips -my wife wouldn't forgive me because she's seen his Proof videos and thinks he's a disgusting boor for slashing up all those animal carcases]
 
tf8s said:
this is what always put me off of them as a company. what exactly is different about the tri-ad lock besides the stop-pin? (I don't exactly trust much of what LT says, but I do trust what STR says, so this is pretty much directed to him or someone else familiar with the knife) it seems like the stop pin might minimize vertical play (Sal Glesser has said lockbacks mostly all have some bladeplay, my understanding is that this stop-pin might reduce it, but the tolerances necessary to eliminate it completely would be beyond the scope of cold steels capabilities) and increase the strength against forces on the edge, but does it strengthen the lock with respect to forces on the spine?
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In short the stop pin design in the Triad lock seems to simply redistribute the stress and shock forces during use so they can be absorbed and shared by the body of the folder and other parts of the system as a whole rather than focus all the force to one small area or two small areas in general. I've always said the folding knife regardless of the type works as a system and no matter how one might beef up one area if another area is still left the weak spot, then that old saying of a chain being only as strong as its weakest link shines through.

What I'm saying to use an automobile comparision is this. You can put balloon tires and big bumpers on a four door Ford LTD station wagon and call it an SUV if you like but we all know that underneath its still nothing more than a passenger vehicle passing itself off as a truck because it has some truck aspects added to it. The same goes for knives sold as hard use or tactical police wear when one area or a couple are left alone while one is beefed up to look all big and bad. In the end its still only as good as the weakest part.

Designing a folder from the ground up to include all aspects in that design can eliminate many of the areas that are known weaknesses. Those weaknesses are often times the shock forces to the system, which can easily negate the lock up of even the best locks when the system is made such that the lock has to absorb all those shocks on its own. The Triad lock has the edge here because of the way it can allow the lock to do what it does best while being aided for what it may fall short on by the rest of the system sharing the load of those forces. This is why the knife can take all those hard whacks and forces that would defeat other locks. The shock is equally shared by the pivot, stop, lock and body all coming together in such a way as to make the system itself more bullet proof, so to speak.

As for vertical play in relation to the stop pin in this design. I really can't say the stop would prevent this from happening. Vertical play can be noticed in all lock types. I don't see it as unique to lock back style folders. What I do see is that it can be related to several things all at once, or one aspect of the folder being done a certain way. Tolerances can be off just a tiny bit in a folder and pan out huge for how it may feel. I think some notice when the lock bar lifts up and this can be related to fit of the lock to the blade or to the pin size vs hole size for how they fit. If your holes for a 1/8" A/K/A .125 rocker arm/lockbar pin are drilled .1285 normally and on one particular folder that hole ends up being for some reason even bigger around in diameter so that .125 pin can move freely you can end up with some slop in the pin itself so when forces are applied to the lock bar and the lock bar raises you can easily see why. Just as easily if the pin itself is not .125 but ends up being .123 and you put it in a pre-drilled hole that is .1295 then you can end up with some slop that way.

This could be evident in a Triad lock as easily as anything. The good news is that with modern machining tools this problem is becoming less and less of an issue. Also, Cold Steel seems to bat a pretty good average for how well their lockbacks work but every now and then one will show slight give to the lock up. One of my four American Lawman folders bought new shows just a slight bit of up and down play but it is slight.

STR
 
Every time I read a remark from the Hate LT crowd, it amazes me just how effective his marketing is. The BS about LT rivals the best cartoons out there.:D
 
Because of their marketing methods and its effect on the image of the industry, I'll never buy a CS product. I however do admit this Tri-Ad Lock is something else, would like to examine one because it does seem to have some major potential. They do make some classic and proven products that I won't bash for quality, just for marketing and copyright ethics. I'll never buy one, but hidden under all the crap there are some good knives out there.
 
The premium price tag attached to mediocre steel turns me off. Sure the Rajah 1 is friggen huge, but for almost 300.00 I'd expect at least 440C or 154CM. The Rajah II has a better FMV, but is just plain ugly (compared to the R1).
 
Corpus said:
The premium price tag attached to mediocre steel turns me off. Sure the Rajah 1 is friggen huge, but for almost 300.00 I'd expect at least 440C or 154CM. The Rajah II has a better FMV, but is just plain ugly (compared to the R1).
Click to expand...

That's why I've only bought a 60 dollar Spartan. It's a great deal the ones for the big bucks aren't, IMO.
 
tf8s said:
this is what always put me off of them as a company. what exactly is different about the tri-ad lock besides the stop-pin? (I don't exactly trust much of what LT says, but I do trust what STR says, so this is pretty much directed to him or someone else familiar with the knife) it seems like the stop pin might minimize vertical play (Sal Glesser has said lockbacks mostly all have some bladeplay, my understanding is that this stop-pin might reduce it, but the tolerances necessary to eliminate it completely would be beyond the scope of cold steels capabilities) and increase the strength against forces on the edge, but does it strengthen the lock with respect to forces on the spine?
Click to expand...

Did you go to http://www.coldsteel.com/triadlock1.html? 3Gaurdsmen provided the link earlier.

It discusses the slightly angled lock surfaces and the intentionally oversized and shown to be oblong rocker pivot hole. You can also see how the lock will butt with the stop pin given enough deformation from closing force. Also, the lock engages further in the blade than many of the lockbacks I've seen.

It all adds up to a stronger lock.
 
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tf8s said:
it seems like the tri-ad lock is just another name for a lockback, unless I'm missing something
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That'd be like saying the compression lock is "just another name" for a liner lock :p

The liner lock is to the compression lock as the lockback is to the tri-ad lock.

The Mastiff said:
The day Cold steel begins using ZDP 189, S90V, CPM M4, and other modern high performance blade steels is the day I will show interest in Cold steel knives.
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I agree. CS would be a lot more attractive to me if they would start using (yes, I will say it again) PREMIUM steels.
 
Corpus said:
The premium price tag attached to mediocre steel turns me off. Sure the Rajah 1 is friggen huge, but for almost 300.00 I'd expect at least 440C or 154CM. The Rajah II has a better FMV, but is just plain ugly (compared to the R1).
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AUS8A and VG-1 aren't mediocre steels and Cold Steels heat treats are very good. ;)

Just because a blade is made out of 440C etc doesn't mean a lot unless it been heat treated properly.

Don't underestimate their San Mai III steels. ;)
 
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orthogonal1 said:
Did you go to http://www.coldsteel.com/triadlock1.html? 3Gaurdsmen provided the link earlier.

It discusses the slightly angled lock surfaces and the intentionally oversized and shown to be oblong rocker pivot hole. You can also see how the lock will butt with the stop pin given enough deformation from closing force. Also, the lock engages forther in the blade than many of the lockbacks I've seen.

It all adds up to a stronger lock.
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thanks for the explanation, STR.

I went to the link, but I didn't want propaganda, I wanted to know, from someone who has actually tested the knife, what CS had done to actually improve the strength of the lock-back design.
 
No problem tf8s

There is nothing wrong with AUS8 steel and for that matter nothing is much the matter with any of the Japanese cutlery steels from AUS4 on up to their top of the line ZDP189 or SGP stainless steels or their high carbon forged Japanese blue or white steels. Look at it this way. For many years people have happily carried a Swiss Army knife or a Case Stainless steel bladed folder and been quite happy with it and the years of performance it has offered them. Many carry a Buck 110 or something else with a 420HC blade and are quite happy with those. Compare AUS8 to 440C, 420HC, 12C27, 13C26 or many other steels considered to be better by many folks and what you end up with is a steel thats right at home competing with all of these and even beating them out in some ways. On paper 440C looks better than AUS8 but honestly, in practical use you'll be sharpening 440C as much as AUS8A or any of these steels for that matter.

Where folks really complain about steels is when they can't get one sharp using conventional methods they found successful in the past with other knives they carried. Compared to this complaint about sharpening ease the complaint every now and then of a steel dulling too fast pales in comparison. Steels harder to sharpen are more often complained about than edge keeping itself in other words and for that matter according to some of the reps at manufactures I've spoken with end line users will sooner complain about a spot on their blade than they will about a blade that dulls or about a steel that is harder to sharpen.

STR
 
I've watched some YouTube reviews on the triad lock and in one famous reviewer's opinion, the new system is really not proven yet and that the large notch cut out of the back of the blade to accomodate the triad system "may not prove to be a great idea."

I haven't heard anything about one failing or a blade breaking from a spine whack test. Probably for normal, non-destructive use, it should be fine I'd think.
 
I just looked at the description of the new Gunsite a little more closely. It claims the blade is 5 1/2" long. The old Gunsite has a 5" blade.
I like large folders so a 5 1/2' blade would be fine with me but I suspect it may be a mis-print. Does anyone know?

Thanks
 
Ankerson said:
AUS8A and VG-1 aren't mediocre steels and Cold Steels heat treats are very good. ;)

Just because a blade is made out of 440C etc doesn't mean a lot unless it been heat treated properly.
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That's kinda my point. If the Rajah I was in their VG-1 steel instead of AUS 8, there'd be more incentive for me to buy it.

I personally don't like AUS 8, have had more than a couple knives in that steel, and was never happy with their performance. I'm sure part of my dislike for AUS8 stems from the fact that I've never been able to get a knife sharp no matter what I tried. I can get an ok edge, sure. But not that scary sharp that I've seen some get using a stone and/or grinder in seconds.

btw, are you suggesting that were Cold Steel to use 440C, they wouldn't know how to properly heat treat it ? ;)
 
cziv said:
I've watched some YouTube reviews on the triad lock and in one famous reviewer's opinion, the new system is really not proven yet and that the large notch cut out of the back of the blade to accomodate the triad system "may not prove to be a great idea."

I haven't heard anything about one failing or a blade breaking from a spine whack test. Probably for normal, non-destructive use, it should be fine I'd think.
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I don't find the argument about the notch worry to be all that valid personally. Lockback folders have always been the type that may warrant attention and maintenance for pocket lint or other such occasional debris removal to prevent things getting lodged in the blade or contact.

All folder lock mechanisms need regular care to prevent obstructions, grit, and so forth that can make them unsafe in some cases though so its not unique to this one since its routine procedure for all folding knives to clean them of debris and check the mechanisms. Overall I think its going to be very hard to find fault with this lock.

Perhaps if there is a weak area it would be in extremely muddy conditions where it is rolled and sloshed around in muck it would suffer some but I would think that in the end in a slosh and muck test that this lock would not do any worse than a Manix or other similar competitor folder of the same category. It may surprise all that try it so you never really know until you compare it. It could well be that if you compared it to a few other folder lock types in a slosh and muck test that it would more than hold its own in all testing. That larger notch may make it easier for things to jam in there but along the same line of thinking that larger notch may make it that much easier to knock those things out too. Then again it may make it harder for things to jam in there at all compared to smaller tighter areas. It would be an interesting test to see video of with some axis, ball, liner, frame, and competitor lockback folders side by side.

STR
 
The Mastiff said:
The day Cold steel begins using ZDP 189, S90V, CPM M4, and other modern high performance blade steels is the day I will show interest in Cold steel knives.
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While this would be nice, chances are if they start using these types of steels, they'll jump up to the Strider and custom prices ranges considering what they charge now for not-so-super-steels.
 
Kaizen1 said:
While this would be nice, chances are if they start using these types of steels, they'll jump up to the Strider and custom prices ranges considering what they charge now for not-so-super-steels.
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Exactly right! I guess one really "can't have it all," as they say. I'd personally love a CPM-M4 bladed folding knife, with G-10 handle scales, Emerson or Spyderco ergos, a Spyderco hole opener (along with an Emerson "wave"), and a Demko/Cold Steel "Tri-Ad lock," but the chances of me finding one or or ever having one made are slim to none.:D
 
kozak6 said:
Speaking of San Mai III, what exactly is laminated together?
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A high carbon [harder] steel core, sandwiched between a lower carbon [softer] steel on either side. Interesting idea, but I figured differential hardening took care of that. For the cost of SMIII, I'd think differential hardening might be cheaper? That's just my $0.02, and I could be missing the mark entirely on what differential hardening is.

thx - cpr
 
What would be neat is if CS fitted all of their regular folder like the Voyagers and Gunsite types with the Ultra Lock, that mimicks BM's Axis lock.

It's on the Recon 1 & AK folders and I really like BM Axis Lock folders.
 
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