MicroAlign
Gold Member
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2004
- Messages
- 499
I haven't bought a Cold Steel knife in a while and I was considering getting one. However, I have read my share of information on CS and I have mixed feelings towards buying any more of their products. Before I simply stopped paying attention to them, they stopped using AUS 8 for some of their knives in favor of cheaper 400 series steel which was not of as good a quality.
Now, CS has completely changed their blade materials to stuff like VG-1 and SK-5(what the hell is that?). I wrote CS regarding their new blade materials and information on how they compare to steels like S30V, D2, CPM-3V, and M2 and they simply sent me this with nothing else:
"VG-1
When considering a new material for a performance upgrade for the Cold Steel® Tanto, we tested seven different grades of steel including Shiro 2, V-SP-2, 10A, 440C, VG-10, ATS 34, and VG-1. Physical testing for sharpness, edge retention, point strength, shock, and ultimate blade strength showed that while many of the steels had increased performance in one or two testing categories, only one, VG-1, showed the greatest performance increases in the most critical categories. With an outstanding ability to retain an edge and proven strength in point and blade tests, VG-1 will provide Cold Steel® customers with superior performance previously unavailable in a stainless steel blade.
AUS Stainless Steels
The words ³stainless steel² are misleading, because, in fact, all steel will stain or show discoloration if left in adverse conditions for a sufficient time. Steel is made ³stainless² by adding Chromium and reducing its Carbon content during the smelting process. There is a serious performance trade-off with stainless steel. As the Chromium increases and the Carbon decreases, the steel becomes more ³stainless². But, it also becomes more and more difficult to sharpen, and the edge-holding potential is seriously impaired. This is usually why most stainless knives are rarely razor-sharp and quickly lose what little edge they have. In contrast, at Cold Steel® we use AUS 8A Stainless, a high carbon, low chromium steel that has proven itself to be the ultimate compromise between toughness and strength, edge holding, and resistance to corrosion. AUS 6A is a medium to high carbon stainless which is tougher than ATS-34, 440C, ATS-55, etc., but still holds a good edge. This means it is particularly well suited for heavier, longer blades that are subjected to a lot of stress while chopping and hacking.
San Mai III®
San Mai means ³three layers². It¹s the term given to the traditional laminated blades used by the Japanese for swords and daggers. Laminated construction is important because it allows different grades of steel to be combined in a single blade. A simple way to think of this type of construction is to imagine a sandwich: The meat center is hard, high carbon steel and the pieces of bread on either side are the lower-carbon, tough side panels. The edge of the blade should be hard to maximize edge holding ability, but if the entire blade was hard it could be damaged during the rigors of battle. For ultimate toughness the body of the blade must be able to withstand impact and lateral stresses. Toughness is generally associated with ³softness² and ³flexibility² in steel, so that, surprisingly, if a blade is made ³tough² the edge won¹t be hard enough to offer superior edge holding. San Mai III® provides a blade with hard (higher carbon) steel in the middle for a keen, long lasting edge and tougher (lower-carbon) steel along the sides for flexibility.
4116 Krupp Stainless Steel
4116 is a fine grained, stainless steel made by ThyssenKrupp in Germany and is used for hygienic applications (medical devices and the pharmaceutical industry) and food processing which make it a superb material for kitchen cutlery. The balance of carbon and chromium content give it a high degree of corrosion resistance and also impressive physical characteristics of strength and edge holding. Edge retention in actual cutting tests exceeded blades made of the 420 and 440 series of stainless steels. Other alloying elements contribute to grain refinement which increase blade strength and edge toughness and also allow for a finer, sharper edge.
1055 Carbon
1055 steel is right on the border between a medium and a high carbon steel, with a carbon content between 0.50%-0.60% and with manganese between 0.60%-0.90% as the only other component. The carbon content and lean alloy make this a shallow hardening steel with a quenched hardness between Rc 60-64 depending on exact carbon content. These combination of factors make this one of the toughest steels available because, when quenched, it produces a near saturated lathe martensite with no excess carbides, avoiding the brittleness of higher carbon materials. This steel is particularly suited to applications where strength and impact resistance is valued above all other considerations and will produce blades of almost legendary toughness.
SK-5 High Carbon
SK-5 is the Japanese equivalent of American 1080, a high carbon steel with carbon between 0.75%-0.85% and 0.60%-0.90% manganese. As quenched, it has a hardness near Rc 65 and produces a mixture of carbon rich martensite with some small un-dissolved carbides. The excess carbide increases abrasion resistance and allows the steel to achieve an ideal balance of very good blade toughness with superior edge holding ability. Due to these characteristics, this grade of steel has been used traditionally for making a variety of hand tools, including chisels and woodcutting saws, and has stood the test of time and use over many years in many countries.
Carbon V
We have been making knives in the USA out of our exclusive Carbon V steel since 1987. However now due to factors beyond our control we must suspend all shipments of these knives for the foreseeable future and cancel all backorders. We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience and disappointment this will cause our valued customers but we have no choice. For the past two years we have done all in our power to support the factory making Carbon V knives for us, but they have continued on a downward spiral and are now in a very severe business and financial crisis and have lost almost their entire workforce.
However please dont despair we will continue to make just about every Carbon V steel knife in either VG-1 San Mai Laminated Stainless steel, 4116 Krupp Stainless Steel or free forged 1050 high Carbon steel. While deliveries may be slow or interrupted on the former Carbon V models we plan to have everything back to normal by January 2007 and we appreciate your continued support as we make this transition to new factories and new steels."
Change is nice and all, but I am curious to know how these steels stack up to steels that come from places like Crucible Steels in which you can compare and contrast to other steels out there. CS doesn't give me any comparisons.
So anyhow, I guess my question is......is Cold Steel going with cheaper materials to cut costs?.......or are they upgrading their materials to give us a better product? Finally, how does CS's VG-1 and VG-1 San Mai stack up to D2 and S30V? My favorite knives come from Benchmade, however CS offers a lot of products that I can't find anywhere else.
Now, CS has completely changed their blade materials to stuff like VG-1 and SK-5(what the hell is that?). I wrote CS regarding their new blade materials and information on how they compare to steels like S30V, D2, CPM-3V, and M2 and they simply sent me this with nothing else:
"VG-1
When considering a new material for a performance upgrade for the Cold Steel® Tanto, we tested seven different grades of steel including Shiro 2, V-SP-2, 10A, 440C, VG-10, ATS 34, and VG-1. Physical testing for sharpness, edge retention, point strength, shock, and ultimate blade strength showed that while many of the steels had increased performance in one or two testing categories, only one, VG-1, showed the greatest performance increases in the most critical categories. With an outstanding ability to retain an edge and proven strength in point and blade tests, VG-1 will provide Cold Steel® customers with superior performance previously unavailable in a stainless steel blade.
AUS Stainless Steels
The words ³stainless steel² are misleading, because, in fact, all steel will stain or show discoloration if left in adverse conditions for a sufficient time. Steel is made ³stainless² by adding Chromium and reducing its Carbon content during the smelting process. There is a serious performance trade-off with stainless steel. As the Chromium increases and the Carbon decreases, the steel becomes more ³stainless². But, it also becomes more and more difficult to sharpen, and the edge-holding potential is seriously impaired. This is usually why most stainless knives are rarely razor-sharp and quickly lose what little edge they have. In contrast, at Cold Steel® we use AUS 8A Stainless, a high carbon, low chromium steel that has proven itself to be the ultimate compromise between toughness and strength, edge holding, and resistance to corrosion. AUS 6A is a medium to high carbon stainless which is tougher than ATS-34, 440C, ATS-55, etc., but still holds a good edge. This means it is particularly well suited for heavier, longer blades that are subjected to a lot of stress while chopping and hacking.
San Mai III®
San Mai means ³three layers². It¹s the term given to the traditional laminated blades used by the Japanese for swords and daggers. Laminated construction is important because it allows different grades of steel to be combined in a single blade. A simple way to think of this type of construction is to imagine a sandwich: The meat center is hard, high carbon steel and the pieces of bread on either side are the lower-carbon, tough side panels. The edge of the blade should be hard to maximize edge holding ability, but if the entire blade was hard it could be damaged during the rigors of battle. For ultimate toughness the body of the blade must be able to withstand impact and lateral stresses. Toughness is generally associated with ³softness² and ³flexibility² in steel, so that, surprisingly, if a blade is made ³tough² the edge won¹t be hard enough to offer superior edge holding. San Mai III® provides a blade with hard (higher carbon) steel in the middle for a keen, long lasting edge and tougher (lower-carbon) steel along the sides for flexibility.
4116 Krupp Stainless Steel
4116 is a fine grained, stainless steel made by ThyssenKrupp in Germany and is used for hygienic applications (medical devices and the pharmaceutical industry) and food processing which make it a superb material for kitchen cutlery. The balance of carbon and chromium content give it a high degree of corrosion resistance and also impressive physical characteristics of strength and edge holding. Edge retention in actual cutting tests exceeded blades made of the 420 and 440 series of stainless steels. Other alloying elements contribute to grain refinement which increase blade strength and edge toughness and also allow for a finer, sharper edge.
1055 Carbon
1055 steel is right on the border between a medium and a high carbon steel, with a carbon content between 0.50%-0.60% and with manganese between 0.60%-0.90% as the only other component. The carbon content and lean alloy make this a shallow hardening steel with a quenched hardness between Rc 60-64 depending on exact carbon content. These combination of factors make this one of the toughest steels available because, when quenched, it produces a near saturated lathe martensite with no excess carbides, avoiding the brittleness of higher carbon materials. This steel is particularly suited to applications where strength and impact resistance is valued above all other considerations and will produce blades of almost legendary toughness.
SK-5 High Carbon
SK-5 is the Japanese equivalent of American 1080, a high carbon steel with carbon between 0.75%-0.85% and 0.60%-0.90% manganese. As quenched, it has a hardness near Rc 65 and produces a mixture of carbon rich martensite with some small un-dissolved carbides. The excess carbide increases abrasion resistance and allows the steel to achieve an ideal balance of very good blade toughness with superior edge holding ability. Due to these characteristics, this grade of steel has been used traditionally for making a variety of hand tools, including chisels and woodcutting saws, and has stood the test of time and use over many years in many countries.
Carbon V
We have been making knives in the USA out of our exclusive Carbon V steel since 1987. However now due to factors beyond our control we must suspend all shipments of these knives for the foreseeable future and cancel all backorders. We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience and disappointment this will cause our valued customers but we have no choice. For the past two years we have done all in our power to support the factory making Carbon V knives for us, but they have continued on a downward spiral and are now in a very severe business and financial crisis and have lost almost their entire workforce.
However please dont despair we will continue to make just about every Carbon V steel knife in either VG-1 San Mai Laminated Stainless steel, 4116 Krupp Stainless Steel or free forged 1050 high Carbon steel. While deliveries may be slow or interrupted on the former Carbon V models we plan to have everything back to normal by January 2007 and we appreciate your continued support as we make this transition to new factories and new steels."
Change is nice and all, but I am curious to know how these steels stack up to steels that come from places like Crucible Steels in which you can compare and contrast to other steels out there. CS doesn't give me any comparisons.
So anyhow, I guess my question is......is Cold Steel going with cheaper materials to cut costs?.......or are they upgrading their materials to give us a better product? Finally, how does CS's VG-1 and VG-1 San Mai stack up to D2 and S30V? My favorite knives come from Benchmade, however CS offers a lot of products that I can't find anywhere else.
