Collaboration Thoughts

CJ Buck

CJ Buck

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Joined
Apr 15, 1999
Messages
898
I need to ask you guys your thoughts on collaborations

We have had an ongoing discussion in R and D on where the quality level (read materials, not workmanship) needed to be on collaborations. So far, working with Strider, we have sought to duplicate the materials they use and give a very high end/high cost production version of a custom original.

We are looking to do that with the mayo as well.

What are the thoughts of only using the design and more standard materials? We see competitors introducing $30-$60 retail collaborations. Materials like AUS-6 and Zytel instead of BG-42, titanium and G-10.

What do you guys want to see from Buck? Either? Both??
 
CJ,
If both are available, more people can choose to fit their budget. If it is an either/or situation, I would opt for the higher quality materials without a second thought. Choosing a collaboration with second-rate materials is not very exciting to me. I am anxious what other forumites think - especially those who normally do not make Buck their first, or even second, choice. I am probably the wrong guy to respond because Buck is all I ever choose!!
 
Wow, I cannot begin to speak for someone else but, given the choice, I'd much prefer the high end!
I would be curious to know how aware the "general public" would be to Tom's name. I have two TNTs and love them. However, I would jump at the chance to own a high-end production version, especially if it is a real TANK in S30V!! Cannot say that I would spring for a low end version for myself but I might spring for some as gifts. Do both if it'll boost sales but PLEEAAASE don't just do low-end!
 
why not do both ?

i for one can buy more of the lower in models

while i can buy only one or two higher end
knives a year

most common people do not know a knife makers name
and they only want quality and value notice i
didnt say cheap lol

and the question is do most people common everyday
people do they care who a colab is with or what is
put into the knife ?

when people say buck the first thing that comes
to my mind is quality and honor in workmanship
not to mention tradition

but thats just my thoughts lol :D
 
Buck has to appease the general population. I think a lot of people out there don't expect a knife to be so expensive.

I would definately drop for higher end materials. Love G-10, ATS34, etc. But not everyone is as anal retentive about their blades as we are.

Then again, only knife gurus would appreciate a Mayo collaberation.

I think it's Buck's call as to how they want to run their business. They need to make money too, and if that means catering more to "average people," so be it. I'd love to see more S30V steel, G10, titatium, etc. But I wouldn't be itched if Buck stepped down to please everyone.

But you asked, so my vote goes for higher end. I'm just saying I'm understanding either way.

I have to admit, I only own one Buck knife. I'm primarily inclined towards Benchmade and Spyderco, but I try to keep an open mind.




And what's the deal with "low" grade steel? I think ATS34 or ATS55 or S30V or tool steels are great, but there's a lot of hype built around it too. My opinion. After dealing with light rust spots growing on several of my ATS34 and AUS8 blades, I rarely put down my 440C BM. Every steel has it's niche, it's not bad.

Maybe I'm wrong. I'm new.
 
cj i think high end materials is the way to go.....as an avid mayo fan and owner of multiple tnt's and other folders by tom mayo i would most certainly be much more inclined to purchase the buck/mayo collaboration knives if they were made out of top end materials and also assembled in a fashion that has the workmanship a cut above the rest..... for example buck has done an excellent job with the buck/strider folders as well as the buck/strider fixed blades not only with materials used but in workmanship

avid knife fans will recognize the mayo name and buy the knife for that reason but the average working man will recognize a cool well thought design made of suberb materials with excellent workmanship backed by the buck name and guarantee that doesnt cost nearly as much as a handmade/custom but is affordable and doesnt break the bank

i think crkt would sell even more of their collaborations if they didnt use the lesser grades of steel in most of their designs....the better grades of steel arent that much more overall in the cost of the total knife but do add to the cost nontheless....there have been several crkt's i never bought because the steel was aus6 or some such stuff and if crkt spent a few dollars more on aus8 even i would have bought the knife when i was readily purchasing factory production pieces like there was no tomorrow

bottom line for me is the higher grade the materials the better...how about S30V for the mayo/buck collaboration pieces or BG-42 even

thanks...feverdoc@yahoo.com
 
Well, put me down for the high end one if it happens. But if you can do both, even if the high end is a smaller run than I would get both.
 
The people who are most likely to be drawn to a collaboration project representing the design of a well-known custom maker are the very people who appreciate a better grade of material.If someone recognizes the name of a maker like Tom Mayo, they're also likely to be fairly cognizant of the relative qualities of cutlery steels. It doesn't have to be the latest über-steel (although I would personally love to see S30V used), but I would hope that it would be something better than the 420HC or AUS-8 that often crops up on lower-end products. 154CM, BG42 or even 440C would be fine for a blade steel. The type of handle material will largely be dictated by the design, but I'd definitely want to avoid any of the Zytel-type plastics for a knife of this caliber (this shouldn't be an issue on a TNT-based design).

Buck has done an excellent job on it's Strider collaborations (I own both a large spearpoint folder and a Strider Solution), and I'd like to see the company use a similar approach on future collaborations with custom makers. It always disappoints me to see some of the great custom designs that have been "wasted" by other companies in production models with substandard materials...I strongly feel that reasonably "high-end" materials would be the best way to go if only one version of the product line is manufactured. Speaking only for myself, I would probably not be inclined to purchase any collaboration projects that were not made with at least moderate quality materials. This has a chance to be a truly great project...please do it right.

Thank you for soliciting customer input on these issues!
 
I'll jump on the high end bandwagon too. S30V or BG42 please. If it is under $200 I'll be certain to pick one up.
 
As someone who buys all sorts of custom collaborations from the MT Lightfoot, Buck Strider, CRKT Carson, to the Kershaw Onions, I'd say that I'd be more willing to pop for a high-end Buck Mayo than a low-end one.

I'd love to have a custom Mayo, but at 600-700, it's well out of my reach.

I'd say leave the Onion Vapor class knives to their own category. I have one of them, and while they're fun, dandy, a great bargain, and available at WalMart, it's not one that I would get again, had I the choice.

Obviously there are more chances to move items in the low-end, and I second the comments that a profit needs to be made.

Has anyone asked Tom Mayo what he wants yet?

That's my opinion.

-jon
 
what are your dealers selling?? is the Buck/Strider selling more , or less than the Taclight?? i seemto remember a post that the Odyssey was started in 1998 and is a top 10 seller. is it still?? it had some very good blade/ handle combinations.
guy
 
Of the Kershaw Ken Onion stuff I carry a Vapor II that I paid $25 for and I carry a Random Task (given to me) that had a $180 retail. My point is that us knife knuts will likely buy whatever it is you make. We'd be MUCH happier with the highend as can be seen above. But in the interest of making money, I would think that a well made affordable knife would sell a ton of units and ultimately be more sucessful.

If possible introduce both a high end model with relatively low production numbers to make us knife knuts happy, as well as an affordable model that everyone and their neighbor will own and carry.

~Mitch
 
This one is easy.......high end. S30v and titanium. I promise you will sell me a few of them.
 
CJ: I believe that Buck Knives made a great impact upon the Everyday Working Guys (read hard working blue collar worker) ever since the introduction of the Buck 110 because its was affordable, had a strong back lock, was hard wearing and more importantly it came stainless. (Note I did not include recreational users as in Fishing & Hunting because that belongs generally to the traditional school of knife users).

As of the early 1980's (I think and stand corrected), the market changed when newer and innovative designs appeared. Today thanks to the pioneering marketing methods of companies like Al Mar and Spyderco, the knife buyer has all the freedom in the world to a choose a blade for specific use accordingly.

Suddenly as we approched towards the end of the 20th century, pocket blades no longer became just a tool, but an object of high art and technical wonder. This approach by knife companies introducing high end pocket blades meant that the intended target market was now geared towards the more affluent amongst us. Is this trend to isolate the ordinary workingman? Or can this re-addressed? Because I fear that eventually American manufacturers would loose its knifemaking workforce when the majority of affordable knives will no longer be American made.

I know this is a rant on my part, but CJ, if you need to modernise do it with the intend of keeping Buck products within the means of the ordinaryman.

I have always felt that its the design that sells knives, and not necessarily the type of material in which it is produced. Hence a particular style may set a trend, but could just as easily die off the following season. The fact is, an ordinary steel knife is suppose to last a lifetime, and sometimes even more.

Just how many knives is an individual suppose to own in one life time? If you're a collector that never even comes to mind. We BUY because we NEED or WANT because we CAN'T HAVE. We also buy because we CAN.

I would like to suggest that a limited edition run on knives designed by the Knife Guru's of the day be given as an optional purchase to the consumer. But a similar range with standard materials be given preference in general.

I know that whatever Buck Knives I now own shall be a heritage to some future collector. Only because Buck Knives is built on a tradition of honest, good hardworking blades meant to last a lifetime no matter what material its made of.


Krizzard, out.

"...Whoever kills with the sword must be killed by the sword... "
- The New Testament, Revelation 13:10
 
I owned my first Buck in the late 60's: I bought my first Mayo in 2000. My first "real" folder was a Buck: My first "real" custom folder was a Mayo....

My vote in '68 would be very different than my vote today if I had to choose between high end and average. So... why not make a great high end Buck/Mayo folder for those who are willing to spend for extra quality, and make a very good folder for those customers who love Buck at their current price point?

Michael
 
When I tell my non-knife collector friends about the price I paid for my buck strider, they freak out and say "why did you pay so much for a knife, that's a rip off" But when I tell my knife friends about the price, they say "that's a bargain". I think the general public won't buy the premium steel buck mayo. I hope there are more buck strider collaborations in the future.
 
How about two models:

Under $100US = 440c + G10 (or something that's NOT zytel) scales

Under $250US = Bg-42 or S30v + Ti scales

-SB

Oh yeah,bring back the 532;) :D
 
Why not ATS-34/154CM blade with an Aluminum handle for the low end model? You could do one of those up fairly inexpensive. The high end would have to be BG-42 or S30V with the Ti handles. Too bad the mass production rights for talonite is already taken. I just don't think that a Mayo knife can survive without some sort of metal handle. Plastic is just so low class.
 
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