Collectability - other issues

Straightblast,

Congrats, you hit the nail on the head. Indeed in the beginning of a down market, spending does increase on more expensive knives.

Many clients held off buying knives during the Bull Market. This was due to the ROI that thier portfolio's were earning.

However, once the Bear snuck in, and the ROI was not as substantial. Many started buying more expensive knives. Idea...buying the right knives I can probably get the same ROI as I am from my portfolio right now.

However, as the bear went to the fridge, got a snack and a beer, then got comfy on the couch with the TV remote. A different buying strategy.

The custom knife market contracted. Sought after makers are still sought after. All though collectors are looking for a less expensive version of an expensive knife. Say a bowie with carbon steel and wood handle as opposed to the same knife in Damascus and Ivory.

B and C level makers are now scrambling to sell knives.

Sales at shows are slowing. Due in large part to the Internet, people not wanting to hassle with flying and a misunderstanding of how you can and cannot transport knives, overseas buyers have slowed down coming to shows. Also, the number of shows has diluted the potential at every show.
So Joss, your answer was correct as well.

However, both you and Straightblast did not make a prediction on which knives to buy this year to resell for a profit next year.

Skyman,

You showed such promise. It does no good to be seen by all, if you are run over by an 18 Wheeler!

Ok, lets go to my favorite philosopher, Yoda! "Do or Do Not...there is no try".

Hopefully, this has removed liberals and the conservatives from this thread. And taken us back to things that affect collectablity!

Another hint...the book by M. Scott Peck
"The Road Less Traveled".

Yet another hint...Synergy as defined by Stephen Covey. Ok, since were talking about Stephen...Win-Win.

Something I incorporate when determining which makers to work with is what's known as SWOT Analysis.

Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats. For threats I like to use what we call in the Intelligence Community Indications and Warnings. This helps you perceive threats before the become an actual threat. ALthough, they are never 100% accurate.

Ok, I'll stop now. Obviously, I am excessively into information analysis.

The answer to the original question is:

Any choice is correct. However, to make any choice correct, the maker must do at least priliminary analysis of their market and their competiton. They must choose a path and stick to it (not walk in the middle of the road).

While it will take more time, ultimately it is those makers who start the path as opposed to follow the path who get noticed the most.
Synergy occurs when the maker puts together their network. That consists of customers (those who spread the buzz), suppliers, other knife makers (mentors), dealers, show promoters, writers and perhaps magazine editors. It is up to the maker to determine what network configuration will provide them with the optimal synergistic effect. The optimal effect is of course, increased sales that ultimately lead to a better position the market they are competing in.

None of this is simple or easy. For most knives are a hobby and that is all it will ever be. Nothing wrong with that.

But for those of you who wish to profit from your hobby. You must do your homework.

Forums such as these are great places for information. The key is to be able to interpret this information in a fashion that will help you achieve your desired results.

After all we use the forums to help reduce risk, cost and uncertainty.

With all this in mind, remember free advise is worth exactly what you paid for it!

Great thread Joss...Im sure we will revist this again in 6 months!
 
Les said, "remember, free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it"

Does that mean your advice is worthless???:eek: :D

"The road les traveled"? Yeah, but you'd better at least keep an eye on the turnpike. It's easy to get lost on what could be a lonely road, if you made a poor choice and expended all your energy in one direction unproductively. Of course luck comes into play somewhat here. Either you start a new trend, or you don't sell anything if your idea of the next trend doesn't agree with the buyers. You need to have other feelers out to see where the traffic is.

Your example of the "next Loveless"- From what I know (not a whole lot, but somewhat familiar with), what less travelled road did he take? Seems to have made standard lines of knives, well made, at reasonable prices, and a lot of them. Did not start an icon, such as Loveless dropped hunter, that I know of? How does he prove your case?

Oh well, promise can be temporary I guess. Homework was never my strongpoint. I'd rather play.

And, I guess all of your advice must not be worthless. You can pay 10.00 for your booklet, then the same worthless advice we get for free here is worth something!!

Later
 
Well, we'll see if all that learning pays off... I just accepted to pay $2,000 for a Steve Schwarzer goblin mosaic damascus folder. That's the largest purchase I've ever done outside of my car. Scarry...

JD
 
Joss,

Loveless took the handle off of a Marble's axe and put it together with a standard hunter blade that had been around for centuries.

As for being an Icon. You are obviously not familiar with who George Herron is and what he has meant to knife making.

The information I give is of course priceless.

BTW, did you call Steve before you bid on the knife?

Now the question is, was there a better place to spend $2,000?

My God man, with $2,000 you could have fully funded your IRA last year (this year you can put $3,000). Did you know you can use knives as part of your IRA?

Send us some pics of the knife when you get it. Steve does some cool stuff!
 
Originally posted by Les Robertson
Joss,

Loveless took the handle off of a Marble's axe and put it together with a standard hunter blade that had been around for centuries.

As for being an Icon. You are obviously not familiar with who George Herron is and what he has meant to knife making.
Click to expand...


I think you meant that in response to Skyman's post - this being said it's true I know nothing about what George Herron represents for knifemaking, as evidenced by the fact I thought you meant Ed Davidson...

BTW, did you call Steve before you bid on the knife?
Click to expand...

No - I emailed him a couple days ago, but he didn't get a chance to respond, or maybe makers don't like discussing their pieces on eBay? I tried to call you to get your opinion though.

My God man, with $2,000 you could have fully funded your IRA last year (this year you can put $3,000).
Click to expand...

Yeah, and if I had been looking for an investment, that's what I would have done. More exactly, that's what I did.

Did you know you can use knives as part of your IRA?
Click to expand...

Huh?

Send us some pics of the knife when you get it. Steve does some cool stuff!
Click to expand...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=713768747

I should get it Monday. I love Goblin folders, be they by Schmidt, Fuegen, or Schwarzer!

JD
 
Les,

Yes I know who George Herron is. I have spoken with him several times and have a copy of an early knife book with his autograph by his photo I got at the Birmingham Knife and Gun Show in the early eighties.

I didn't say he wasn't an icon. I asked which knife model he made that was an icon, as contrasted with Loveless' drop point, which may be a marbles handle on an old style blade, but is still probably the most recognized and copied hunting knife in the world, therefore an icon. I don't know if Herron has an icon style knife? What do you think?
 
Hello There Mr. Skyman,

You are correct, I don't think that there is a knife that George is universally known for. Although, I am very partial to his sub-hilt fighter!

I give Loveless all the credit he is due in popularizing the Drop Point Hunter and the Sub-Hilt Fighter.

Loveless became popular when I first started collecting. I met him in 1986 at the Blade Show. I stunned at how amazingly rude he was to people. I had met George the year before. Perhaps it was just the fact that he was a former Infantryman and I was an current one. Perhaps it was that we both appreciated straight forward talk. Regardless of the common denominator we became fast friends.

I guess since people found out they could make money on Loveless' knives in the aftermarket, they put up with the "tempermental artist".

I was incredibly impressed after meeting Bill Moran. Here is a man who has without a doubt done more for custom knives than Loveless has. Yet, unlike Loveless he never talked down to people and was always the gentleman.

George is much like Bill Moran in that way. He is there to help and educate. Not to belittle those who appreciate what he has given to knives.

I have only owned one Loveless knife, I traded it even for a Herron. I made more money, but my client got a superior knife.

When Loveless started selling knives back in the 50's to Abercrombie and Fitch. There were only a hand full of custom knife makers. In other words there was virtually no competition. Not to mention by the time the Guild was formed he had been making knives for somewhere around 15 years. That is quite a head start on most of his competitors. As one of the better makers in the young Guild he became one of the makers to "buy".

If you ever get a chance look at a Rod Chappel Catalog from the 70's and compare prices to Loveless knives. He was gettin 3 times as much as Loveless. Unfortunately, he was no kind of businessman.

When a market is young. A good product at a fair price, coupled with good customer service will be a winner. Loveless was there when the market was in its infancy.

Because the custom knife market has matured it is much more difficult for a maker to enter the market and become successful with just a good line of knives at a fair price. THis is not to say it can't be done. Just plan on working hard at it for a decade.
 
Oh man. Got on a different computer last night without the same user name and blew my cover- BUSTED! Now I can't give Les as hard a time.

But, as usual, it's always worthwile reading what he has to say. Can't argue with most of it.

I met Bob Lovesless in the late eighties when he had a table, also, at the New York Show. He came over, sat down with me at my table and carried on a very pleasant conversation for a while. But I am aware of plenty of the other things you mentioned also. As a matter of fact, at that same show I heard him relay the following quote to a showgoer. The individual, who didn't know Bob apparently, was questioning the value of Bob's stock removal knives compared to forged blades, insinuating that forged blades were better. BAD MOVE! Bob asked him loudly, "How do you know that?" The gentleman replied, "I read it in a magazine artical". Bob said, loud enough for most of the room to hear: "Let me tell you something about writers; Them that can,DO; them that can't, WRITE ABOUT IT!! ":eek:

Timing, luck, etc had a lot to do with his fame of course. If George had been first, roles could have been reversed. Moran, of course, has an icon knife with his early damascus blades and handle style. I just couldn't put a finger on what Herron knife would fit the title. That doesn't detract from George one bit. He deserved every bit of his early induction into the Cutler's Hall of Fame.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top