collectors buying knifemakers' supplies

[shaldag]

Myabe this would be better posted in the Maker's fourms, but...
What do you folks (especially the makers) think about collectors who buy supplies like pearl, ivory, stag, etc --and then request that a maker use that particular piece for a handle or scales? On occasion, I have seen a magnificent set of black pearl or mammoth ivory slabs that were really exceptional. On a par with what the best art-knife makers would use. Since I imagine that these kind of things are becoming more and more difficult to find, would it not make sense if, when I see something that I really like, to purchase it for future use by a maker? Of course, that is only worthwhile if makers are willing to do that sort of thing--otherwise, I end up with a buncha beautiful, but useless, slabs laying around the basement......

Thoughts?

 

[nifrand]

I do it all the time.The problem is I never remember to give it to the maker and end up with a bunch of pretty scale materials myself

 

[Durwood]

I've been selecting and buying handle materials that have made there way to a finished knife for quite a while. The trick is in, talking to your prospective maker about what he likes to work with and will to work with, and what he has the most trouble fitting. Ironically, only a couple a knives or three that I've had made with my suplied material turned out as nice as when i just stayed out of it

Stag can be very tricky...and I've given up on what I think giraffe bone will look like when it's done...but I still like some of it a lot.

 

[Alpha Knife Supply]

We were buying materials for our custom knives years before we got into the supply business.

Now that we are in the supply business I found out we were not unique. We regularly have collectors buy materials. Some collectors have us send the materials directly to knifemakers.

Choosing your own materials is one way to ensure you get what you want on your knives. We encourage collectors to buy materials they like. Especially rare materials like mammoth ivory, mother of pearl, etc. Think how nice it would be to have a big supply of black lip MOP or stag. Ten years ago these materials were not that expensive compared to today.

We still send materials to knifemakers for use on our knives. The only difference is now we have a bigger selection and an incredible "Private Stash" box.

 

[smcfalls13]

I've been doing it for several months now. I'm kinda picky on what materials I want on a knife, and I much prefer to supply my own materials for what projects I have in mind.

Especially with natural materials(wood, pearl, bone) there can be a lot of variation in pieces, and it's nice to know EXACTLY what you're going to get, because you've got it in your hand before it goes on the knife.

It's not as big a deal with synthetic materials, since apart from quality, most of the materials are all the same.

Heck, I've ever gone so far as to supply the Titanium or Steel for projects of mine, but that's usually for special cases. Situations where the maker has a hard time acquiring certain sizes or grades of material.

Personally, I think supplying your own materials is a win-win situation for both you and the maker. It's a win for you, because you know what materials are going onto your knife, and you know the quality of them, because you are the one who purchased(and researched) them. It's a win for the maker because they don't need to use their own stock of supplies, and it allows them to keep their inventory at a reasonable level, without having a lot of money tied up in unused supplies.

I'm all for it.

I've got more Ironwood than I know what to do with though Thirty years from now I'll probably still have some pieces left over.

 

[Danbo]

Providing the handle materials is something I've been doing for a long time. :thumbup:

 

[David Schott]

I'd have no problem with it whatsoever, so long as a buyer realizes that sometimes things happen in the shop just like everywhere else. Sometimes, that one of a kind piece of handle material will not work out or will have problems during fabrication that in a normal order, the customer never hears about since the maker absorbs the cost of ruined materials.

Most makers will work with any customer on any aspect of design and materials (within reason), so I'd say go for it!

 

[Bastid]

David brings up a good point. I have been buying materials also, with that I understand that sometimes natural materials have flaws that can not be detected untill the material is shaped. Pearl especially has to be checked closely for cracks from every angle including the sides. As a collector I realize I am taking on that risk when I supply the material. I have had good teachers (knifemakers) teach me how to pick pearl, but even the nicest picks have the possibility of containing a flaw that could require me purchasing another slab.

 

[David Schott]

Another typical thing I can see happening is a collector providing a beautiful block of wood for a handle, only for the maker to find large inclusions inside (especially with burl). In the end, good communication between buyer and maker is all that is needed. The beauty of sole authorship knives is that you start with a clean slate, so any level of involvement can occur between maker and buyer. I shipped unfinished scales to a buyer who wanted finger grooves custom cut to the size of his hands, and he sent it back with markings where all his fingers extended onto the handle, resulting in a knife custom made and fitted to his hand. Customers dont get involved enough!

 

[Keith Montgomery]

I would like to know what more makers think of the customer supplying materials. There can be quite a lot of markup applied to materials, and this ends up being lost profit for the maker.

 

[lwrhea]

I agree with Tiktok. The first thing I thought of was what if I screw up the collector's material? There would have to be an understanding up front. From what I've heard you guys say, that is probably a risk most collectors are willing to take. Under these circumstances, I would take the project. Good question. Lin

 

[smcfalls13]

There can be quite a lot of makeup applied to materials, and this ends up being lost profit for the maker.

I assume you mean markup? That's a valid point. Personally, I wouldn't expect any kind of price break from a maker, even if I was supplying my own materials, but not everyone may agree with me.

The materials themselves are pretty cheap. It's the labor that goes into making the knife that is expensive. Just because I supply a ten dollar piece of wood, doesn't mean the maker should knock $50 off the price.

It's not fair to the maker.

Sometimes, that one of a kind piece of handle material will not work out or will have problems during fabrication that in a normal order, the customer never hears about since the maker absorbs the cost of ruined materials.

That's also a good point. I honestly never thought of that happening. I'm more concerned with handle materials being lost during shipping, so I've always made sure I had several back ups of similar materials, just in case. It guess it would work the same way if the material were damaged while trying to use it.

 

[J A Martin]

I usually don't care for customer supplied materials as it sometimes can limit the creative process. When I select handle material it often inspires me to a particular style, size, steel etc. It just seems when I get a piece a customer sends it doesn't always carry the same spark. I'm sure other makers here can identify with this to some degree. When your looking at lots of material at a show or supplier there seems to be a piece that stands out and lends itself to a particular project. This would apply more to natural handle material than synthetics for me.

 

[Alpha Knife Supply]

The materials themselves are pretty cheap. It's the labor that goes into making the knife that is expensive. Just because I supply a ten dollar piece of wood, doesn't mean the maker should knock $50 off the price.

Not all materials are inexpensive. The biggest pair of Timascus scales we provided for a knifemaker were $650. At Blade West we bought an entire walrus tusk. We got a special deal because we are friends with the ivory dealer. The tusk was $800.

However, we never negotiate prices with knifemakers. We contact a knifemaker and tell them the materials we will provide. The knifemaker tells us the price of the knife. We pay the asking price.

If our materials don't work or get damaged, that is our problem. If the knifemaker wants to use different materials than those we sent, we almost always go with what the knifemaker wants to do. We trust their judgement or we would not be buying a knives from them!

 

[Saberman]

Not all materials are inexpensive. The biggest pair of Timascus scales we provided for a knifemaker were $650. At Blade West we bought an entire walrus tusk. We got a special deal because we are friends with the ivory dealer. The tusk was $800.

However, we never negotiate prices with knifemakers. We contact a knifemaker and tell them the materials we will provide. The knifemaker tells us the price of the knife. We pay the asking price.

If our materials don't work or get damaged, that is our problem. If the knifemaker wants to use different materials than those we sent, we almost always go with what the knifemaker wants to do. We trust their judgement or we would not be buying a knives from them!

Well said! And $800 for a tusk is an great price! When are we going to see any of it on your site?

I started out collecting handle material as something to do while I travel. Have a friend make me a knife out of it. That way I get to carry some nice memories. Got some nice Mammoth from my Sisters Wedding last year... But the other reason I collect these thing is becouse I want to make the knives myself.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

I assume you mean markup?

Yes, that is what I meant. I have edited my original post.

If a maker charges $300.00 extra for walrus ivory, I would not expect to pay that if I supplied the ivory. I am also willing to accept the fact that natural materials can have problems, and if due to flaws my material does not work, I would then expect to pay the premium that the maker would charge for replacing it.

I will always leave it up to the maker as to whether to use my materials. As was pointed out by J A Martin, there are definte artistic reasons for the maker to choose what materials to use.

 

[canineforge]

This is from a 'user' knife experience, but I think it makes a good point:

My only earlier experience with Billy Watson was purchasing a 4" hunter from him on this forum this year. I thought the knife was an exceptional product for the money. So, I contacted him, ask a quote for two 5" hunters similar in design to the 4" purchase, and ask if I could send him some cherry and sassafras I had available to use on the handles. I have wanted a maker to try sassafras for some time because here in the Ozarks, it makes the best canoe paddle ever for use on gravel-bottom streams. And, I have some sassafras paddles with knock-your-eyes-out beautiful grain in them.
Billy said that would be fine and gave me a quote. I mentioned that I wanted the 5" hunters because I am 6'5" and have larger hands. So, I mailed him the wood and he said it would be about 6 months. Two months later, he e-mails and says the knives are ready to ship upon payment. I mailed the quoted amount.
When they arrived, I was one happy camper. He had made the blades 6" and the handles 5", and they fit these larger hands perfect.
I never did ask him if he did that because I provided him with the wood (sending quite a bit extra), but he did tell me he had a regular customer who was also 6'5" and he thought I would like these better than the 5" version.
That's the kind of communication I like between customer and maker!

 

[Ed Schempp]

There is a lot a varibility in natural materials. Most knifemakers have to charge a premium for premium materials because of lose and failure. It can be a result of the maker or the materials. I've run into problems with pearl in particular. You might not have any problems until you finish shaping the handle then you spot a crack; and you have to tap your pearl supplies for another piece. As long as there is agreement between maker and cusomer there should be any problems. The customer has to be aware that there always exists the potential for damage to their investment. On a higher end knife I like to have a cushion of material in case I do have a problem in construction. I tend to buy good materials and display them in their uncut state, I guess that you could call that hoarding...Take Care...Ed

 

[george tichbourne]

I go along with Ed, when it comes to using customer supplied materials I break out in a sweat worrying about damaging the material that the customer supplied even if it is only an antler from his first deer.

I prefer using my own inventory and before we start I lay out a box of ironwood or such in front of the customer so he can select the piece that he prefers or we can do it on line. Sure it is still customer selected material but for the most part it has no particular sentimental value to the customer in the worst case scenario that something goes wrong.