Collectors - What do you look for in a Maker?

[Kevin Jones]

There was a thread several months ago asking makers what they looked for, or what they liked in a collector. We got limited feedback, however what we did get was quite interesting. So I thought, lets turn the question around. As we collectors seem to be a vocal group, I expect we will get more opinions.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=461487

As my collection is very focused (perhaps too much so), I have the obvious criterion for selecting makers from which to build and maintain my collection and of course the knives being close to perfect in every aspect is paramount.

•I collect ABS forged knives so makers I support have to fall into that category.

•I like Damascus and engraving, so I gravitate towards makers who have mastered the Damascus process and that either engrave or are aligned with an engraver for collaboration where appropriate.

•The individual knife is very important, and I may admire or appreciate a knife made by a particular maker but I must like and respect him or her before I will buy. For me it’s not just about the knife, but more a knife/maker relationship thing.

•I prefer the maker to be known or have “market position”. I collect because I love it however every purchase must meet certain “resale for profit” guidelines.

•Makers I support must be business savvy. IMO, successful knifemaking as a career is a 60/40 proposition. Knifemaking skill and execution is only 60%. The remaining 40% is planning, marketing, promoting, education, finance and demeanor.

•The maker must be willing to work to protect my investment. He must work to “make a market” for his knives to insure my knives continue to be in demand over the long term to allow for appreciation in value. IMO, the collector has the responsibility to help the maker here, by talking up his work, posting photos, showing his work and of course buying it. And in turn, the maker needs to realize the collector is helping him or her and appreciate it.

•The maker should be willing to work to promote the custom knife industry in our circles in doing shows and making appearances, however also in the broader art market. We need exposure within other groups such as the Safari Club and in the art media. Why shouldn’t custom knives be on the covers of art magazines or makers asked to exhibit in galleries? There are makers who are working towards this and IMO we will all benefit from it.

OK, I will stop now…….
What do the rest of you look for in a maker? What turns you on or off?

 

[ptgdvc]

1. Ultra clean fit and finish that approaches perfection.

2. The ability to create beautiful designs that flow and are practical works of art.

3. Honesty, and a passing acquaintance with reality.

4. A true passion for the craft and the willingness to continually improve.

5. A strong and well regarded position in the secondary market.

 

[NickWheeler]

Great thread Kevin- :thumbup:

Lots of great points.

I'd almost have to disagree on ONE point though. I'm starting to feel like it's more 40% knifemaking skill and 60% business.

Even though I was trying to get in my shop after taking on my "jobby job" I didn't have time to stay in touch with people whether it was by phone, email, or the forums. Many folks were worried I'd fallen off the face of the knifemaking earth. It was really hard to convince people that wasn't the case until I showed up in Atlanta to get my Js.

Had I done better in staying in front of people, that wouldn't really have been an issue.

Of course my biggest need is to figure out how to improve on my skill level yet produce more knives. This is a hard one for me. As STephen said in Reno, each knife I make involves this great inner struggle that goes far beyond simply forging/grinding/finishing a knife.

Maybe some meds for attention deficit disorder and obsessive compulsive disorder would get me there! lol

I'm extremely interested in seeing the other responses.

 

[rnrossi]

"Honesty, and a passing acquaintance with reality." That's very good, Peter.

Kevin, all of your points, beyond the artistic issues, are valid for a strong collector base and (some) financial success for the maker. I think you can apply your criteria to those makers that have 'market position' as you say. Artists with a solid body of work, good collector base, and consistent, or growing, careers. Investment value is affected both by scarcity and enough work to create a demand in the first place.

There are many talented makers that are not there yet, in the sense that it takes time to establish consistency and longevity. A great maker with a five year career may not be such a good investment in ten years.

A talented maker that attracts attention is first a great craftsman and artist, and that is saying and doing quite a lot. Great if they have the rational, business side also. But I would think that most find this the second challenge in a knife making career.

So, I like Peter's criteria as a starting point. Of course, that means you may occasionally lose some money, but that's the risk in supporting an artist in any field. Then again, money is not an absolute value either.

Art, decency, commonsense and enjoyment.

 

[Evil Eye Earl]

I am a simple man wanting simple things.
Talent,Honesty,Creativity,Communication.

 

[Karl B. Andersen]

You ever buy a knife just 'cause you like it?!!?

 

[Keith Montgomery]

First and foremost the maker has to make knives that appeal to me. Many makers produce knives in the styles that I collect, but don't make them in a way that grabs me. If I have seen quite a few knives from a maker and they have all caught my eye, I will contact that maker and see where things go from there.

The maker has to be friendly, communicative and be willing to work with me. I am not one that purchases stock models, so the maker may have to be willing to go where he hasn't gone before, and be confident that what I am asking for is something that he/she can do.

I am a member of the ABS and collect only forged knives at this time, but some of those knives are made by non ABS makers. What is most important to me is the quality of the makers' knives, and the reputation and personality of the makers.

The maker's position in the marketplace makes somewhat of a difference to me, but I am also willing to purchase from makers that are not well known, and have not established themselves. I know this is risky if I am to be thinking about the future value of my knives, but if someone doesn't take a chance on the new guys, some possibly future great makers might get discouraged and quit.

I'm still not enough into knives as investments to say that I will only purchase from makers that do everything they can to protect the future value of their knives. I will do all I can to promote the makers I like, but I am willing to purchase from top makers that aren't good at promoting themselves or their work.

The one thing that will turn me off a maker immediately is poor communication. I have cancelled orders, and probably burnt bridges, because of makers' inability to keep promises about getting back to me. If a maker promises me something, they had better keep that promise, or have a darn good reason for not being able to.

 

[Kevin Jones]

A talented maker that attracts attention is first a great craftsman and artist, and that is saying and doing quite a lot. Great if they have the rational, business side also. But I would think that most find this the second challenge in a knife making career.

You make good points.
Unfortunately, it they make knives as a profession rather than a hobby, without the business side, it probably doesn't matter how great a craftsman and artist they are as their knife making career will most likely be short lived.

You ever buy a knife just 'cause you like it?!!?

Hi Karl.
I have never bought a knife that I was not absolutely crazy about.

Great points Peter.

Nick, it's not easy is it? Even with all the talent you possess.

 

[jdm61]

I know this would be very difficult to do, but I would love to know what the average user/casual collector of custom knives who can't spend the equivalent of the GDP of a small Third World country every year on knives looks for. Let's be honest......that is my customer base for the foreseeble future and maybe forever

 

[canineforge]

It is easy to buy a knife you like, assuming it is in your price range. It is FUN when you are involved in the process. My taste aren't extravagant in terms of dressed up knives. I do like basic designs with good flow and great fit and finish. I enjoy using a basic design, taking the best materials, and coming up with an outstanding product. Being involved in that process with the maker makes this fun for me. Of course I pick up pieces "just 'cause I like them", but the real enjoyment is having a small to large part in the custom knife fabrication process. Not to interfer with his 'style' or possible limits, but to utilize them into something I like. So, the more the maker allows this, the more interested I become in the maker.

Great thread, Kevin.

- Joe

 

[Kevin Jones]

It is easy to buy a knife you like, assuming it is in your price range. It is FUN when you are involved in the process. My taste aren't extravagant in terms of dressed up knives. I do like basic designs with good flow and great fit and finish. I enjoy using a basic design, taking the best materials, and coming up with an outstanding product. Being involved in that process with the maker makes this fun for me. Of course I pick up pieces "just 'cause I like them", but the real enjoyment is having a small to large part in the custom knife fabrication process. Not to interfer with his 'style' or possible limits, but to utilize them into something I like. So, the more the maker allows this, the more interested I become in the maker.

Great thread, Kevin.

- Joe

I totally agree Joe.
I love working with makers who let and invite you to be involved. Especially the ones who let you think you are more involved then you actually are.

Working closely with Jerry on the "Gambler's Set" was probably the highlight of my all time collecting experence. Recently working with Jay Hendrickson was great too.

I'm really looking forward to being involved in a couple projects with your good buddy.

Good points Keith. :thumbup:

 

[jdm61]

1. Ultra clean fit and finish that approaches perfection.

2. The ability to create beautiful designs that flow and are practical works of art.

3. Honesty, and a passing acquaintance with reality.

4. A true passion for the craft and the willingness to continually improve.

5. A strong and well regarded position in the secondary market.

I have number 4 down.......gotta work on the others, especially 1 and 3b Tell me this. What did you high end collectors start off with when you first got bitten by the bug?

 

[Kevin Jones]

These were my first Joe. A Larry Mensch hunter bought for $240, followed by a Herb Derr fighter for about $500. Still have them both. My taste has not varied much from the beginning (stag & damascus hunters and bowies).

 

[Kohai999]

I have number 4 down.......gotta work on the others, especially 1 and 3b Tell me this. What did you high end collectors start off with when you first got bitten by the bug?

1. Larry Page fighter in the, ahem, Loveless style, with some of the finest cocobolo ever seen, looked like a mountain landscape on a handle.

2. Ron Gaston fighter-he was a maker that still looks good...to just about anyone.

3. Pat Crawford magnum Assassin frame lock folder...still have it.

4. Wayne Valachovic thuya burl fighter, with a spike skull crusher.

5. My first decent knife of my own purchase was a Gerber Guardian II.

These knives were all purchased in 1985, except for the Valachovic which was purchased in 1987.

You ever buy a knife just 'cause you like it?!!?

Piece FIRST, maker second, price third.

I have knives from Phil Baldwin, Gordon Chard, Keith "Twig" Davis, William "Gordon" DeFreest, Mike Franklin....not exactly household names, even though Franklin does work for CRK&T. These pieces represent outstanding work for a reasonable price, and I am glad that I own them.



Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Kevin Jones]

1. Larry Page fighter in the, ahem, Loveless style, with some of the finest cocobolo ever seen, looked like a mountain landscape on a handle.

2. Ron Gaston fighter-he was a maker that still looks good...to just about anyone.

3. Pat Crawford magnum Assassin frame lock folder...still have it.

4. Wayne Valachovic thuya burl fighter, with a spike skull crusher.

5. My first decent knife of my own purchase was a Gerber Guardian II.

These knives were all purchased in 1985, except for the Valachovic which was purchased in 1987.



Piece FIRST, maker second, price third.

I have knives from Phil Baldwin, Gordon Chard, Keith "Twig" Davis, William "Gordon" DeFreest, Mike Franklin....not exactly household names, even though Franklin does work for CRK&T. These pieces represent outstanding work for a reasonable price, and I am glad that I own them.



Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Good eye even 22 years ago. :thumbup:

What do you look for in a maker?

Maker first my friend, piece a close second.

 

[Kohai999]

Good eye even 22 years ago. :thumbup:

What do you look for in a maker?

Maker first my friend, piece a close second.

KJ,

Thanks for the compliment.

Collecting knives tends to be evolutionary, for most of us.

A maker who invites dialogue and idea contributions. Enjoyment of a spirited debate without turning into a whiney puss or repository of megalomanic ego. THE BEST makers that I have ever known were the ones who wanted to make a knife for me, invited my input, and made it(Crawford, Crowder, Fuegen, Fogg, Foster, Rapp, Smith....)

I now look for a maker who can educate me with both their work, and as an individual. It is not that I am looking to be educated by the maker, if you can understand that, just want the potential to be there.

Unique expression of artistry and craft combined. John Young and Mike Lovett work in the "Loveless Style", but the pieces that I have will not be confused with Loveless. Each piece is unique to the maker. I like it that way.

A maker with a proven track record and endurance. I broke my own rules with Gedraitis, Lovett, Wheeler, and Young within the last 3 years. Time will tell the ultimate "place" in the pantheon. Occasionally risk is rewarded, but I personnally prefer to be conservative, ESPECIALLY with high priced new makers.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[jdm61]

Definately a good eye, Steven. I still get excited when I see a Ron Gaston fighter. He was one of the first custom guys that I ever really got excited about (but couldn't afford...lol) and is still one of my all time favorite stock removal makers and knifemakers in general. My first decent knives were a Gerber Mk I (before they changed steel) and one of the small Gerber brass framed drop point folders.

 

[Danbo]

You ever buy a knife just 'cause you like it?!!?

All the time, my friend. All the time.

But, those impulse buys STILL have to pass the rigorous standards as far as fit and finish are concerned. Plus, the maker cannot be an asshole.

 

[dsvirsky]

I know this would be very difficult to do, but I would love to know what the average user/casual collector of custom knives who can't spend the equivalent of the GDP of a small Third World country every year on knives looks for. Let's be honest......that is my customer base for the foreseeble future and maybe forever

That sounds a bit like me -- the rest of these guys are so far out of my league that I'm not sure we're even playing the same game. Also, you have to keep in mind that I am not a collector in the sense that they are because I buy whatever I like (no theme) and carry and use just about every knife I buy; there are no safe queens and I don't care about the secondary market.

I'm looking for good fit and finish, consistent with the price of the knife. At this year's Blade Show, I purchased a folder from Gayle Bradley that's as near to perfect as I can see. Maybe one of these guys could find fault (heck, I know there's at least one of you that doesn't like jigged bone), but I think I got more than my money's worth. I also bought a slipjoint folder from Tim Britton for less than 1/3 the price -- my expectations for that knife were appropriately lower, although it too was well made.

I'm also looking for "[h]onesty, and a passing acquaintance with reality." The honesty part falls into the general category of "I'm not giving my hard earned money to a$$holes." That "passing acquaintance with reality" thing has lead me to stop ordering knives from makers, buying only at shows. My budget doesn't allow for "whenever" and I'm tired of 6 months being 12 months and 12 months being 2 years.

Since I'm buying primarily at shows, it's the appearance of the knife that's going to get my attention, but it's the maker's enthusiasm for knifemaking that's going to make the sale.

Hope this helps.

 

[ptgdvc]

What did you high end collectors start off with when you first got bitten by the bug?

Here is the one that got me into all this trouble. The first forged Bowie that I ever bought (4-5 years ago). It was made by some unknown named Shawn McIntyre. The tiger striped damascus and ring gidgee handle pushed me right over the edge, and overcame my natural aversion to blued fittings! If my memory serves, Roger P bought it from me.

Still a pretty darn good looking piece, imho. :thumbup: