Combo-edge or plain edge for self-defense?

If you're like most of us and live and work in jurisdictions where blades over 3.5-4" are illegal to carry, using a knife for self-defense becomes more a matter of slashing and maybe being able to make a few select shallow stabs (femoral artery for example) rather than stabbing the torso to hit internal organs.

IMO this means that being able to cut through heavy clothing isn't a primary consideration .... heavy outerwear usually means a coat, and the anterior torso isn't a great target for slashing with a short blade. Face, neck, hand, wrists, groin and upper thigh, or a shallow stab into the back if the opportunity presents itself, that's what you're looking for.

So which is better for a short slashing blade, plain or serrated? I don't think the difference is that huge if the knives are the same overall profile and sharpness. Serrated may leave a nasty cut that's harder to treat and heal, but I don't believe it's going to stop an assailant any quicker. I personally carry plain edge knives, but mostly because I like plain edges better for utility work and find them easier to maintain. And I also do a lot more utility cutting than I do knife fighting ;) maybe your situation is different (I honestly hope not!)
 
I agree with you. The point (for me, anyway) is not to kill the assailant, it is to stop him from killing me. Having to use such a tool for SD would be awful.

Thanks for the advice. :)

- chaya
 
For me, PE is the way to go for SD. I feel that serrations can get caught on clothing and even flesh. That is my $.02
 
TheKnifeCollector said:
For me, PE is the way to go for SD. I feel that serrations can get caught on clothing and even flesh. That is my $.02
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Seems logical to me. Thanks for the 2 cents. :)

- chaya
 
Things to bring to a knife fight....
1. Sense not to get into one.
2. A firearm
3. Running shoes
If for some reason I can't grasp you WERE to get into that situation,get a plain blade. They slide.
No offense but I grew up in one of worst sections of what folks generally refer to as a cesspool of a big city, am a former member of the SpecWar community and I've never gotten wet in either situation. Again, no offense meant.
 
dawg said:
Things to bring to a knife fight....
1. Sense not to get into one.
2. A firearm
3. Running shoes
If for some reason I can't grasp you WERE to get into that situation,get a plain blade. They slide.
No offense but I grew up in one of worst sections of what folks generally refer to as a cesspool of a big city, am a former member of the SpecWar community and I've never gotten wet in either situation. Again, no offense meant.
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Trust me, I agree with you on the superiority of gun in such a situation. It is obviously better to disable your assailant without having to make contact with him.

However, not everyone can carry a gun in all the places one can carry a knife. Also, I'm not saying that it's probable I'd have to defend myself with such force, but I'd much rather be prepared than the alternative choice if the need arose.

Unless I missed something, I see no reason I would be offended by your post. It's cool. :cool:

Thanks for the reply.

- chaya
 
One last thing...
Real world knife fights are brutal events of frenzy, fear,adreneline and rage. Forget the two guys circling each other mano y mano holding their blades low. If you're in a knife fight, you're already in way over your head. That said,....
1. Get something CHEAP. IF you survive an encounter, you're going to want to dump the blade or leave it in your newfound friend. One of the cardinal rules in a knife encounter is to not let the other guy know you have a knife.You want to do him and run.
2.Get something heavy duty. When things go bad, they go bad fast. Things break,things twist,things get slimy.The amount of force and torque applied when you're that flat our scared will amaze you.
3. Find someone who knows something about this. Do not find said advice in a bar or from your 300 pound buddy who works in a cubical and reads Soldier of Fortune and has a huge gun collection of big bores.Do not pick the guy with the fight scars. Pick the guy who gave him the fight scars.The quiet one.
4. Practice situational awareness constantly.24/7.Be aware of things. Do the math as you walk around.Know your limitations. Look for escape routes.If the knowledge that you have a blade is what's keeping you confident,get rid of it.Your mind is a much better thing to have as a solo weapon.
5.Finally, all the "experts" and B.S. artists in the world won't be there when the chips are down. It's you.In the real world, people die.If you get into such a confrontation.If it's your wallet, your car,etc...give it up.
If there is absolutely no talking your way out, if you're without question trapped...
Absolutely unleash.
Dump 'em
Run away.
 
Cool, dawg. You sounds like a real expert. Gonna treat your experience seriously.:thumbup:
 
dawg said:
One last thing...

What Dawg sed. Solid advice. You said it a lot better than most i've heard (I'd buy your book - bow to the wow!)... By all means, knife fights suck, and they are the last thing anyone in their right mind would want to get into (except maybe a political convention)... But if you can't run away like a scared little bitc_ (which is what i would unconditionally do and reccomend)... then:
Let me second the part about getting a knife that you aren't strong enough to break or bend, with a handle that retains a positive grip even when wet. Don't pick a round handle -- a flat one will let you tell by feel which way the blade is facing. And you will want to avoid the popular "finger-hole" handle style -- or you will certainly be adding a broken finger to your list of defensive injuries.
As Dawg points out, most knife fights are long-lasating, grueling, agonizing. be prepared to get cut. Use your weak arm defensively, preferalby wrapped in cloth or carpet or something. Protect your vitals, this person is trying to kill you, not scare you, so fight like your life depends on it. Slashing is generally better than stabbing, especially if you have practiced enough to know where vascular and mechanical targets are without thinking about it, and your knife is less likely to get lodged in your opponent. Use whatever grip is most comfortable for you, of course, but you will probably be pressed right up against the other person, grappling. Most people react to being cut by pulling away, so if you make your first attack a reverse-grip pull, the person will tend to recoil into your blade. Don't stop attacking -- strike while the iron is hot and keep striking, even if you think you are "losing". If you survive, don't wait around like an idiot waiting for the pigs to arrive, unless you want to spend a lot of time and money in court, and possibly prison, in addition to what you will already be spending at the emergency room, which is where you will probably be hauling ass to after ditching your blade (hopefully not a $500 Hisssom custom (D'oh!)).
on the other hand, I wouldn't necessarily disqualify the advice of knife fighters who look like Leatherface (at least they survived, which is more than can be said for some of the guys who gave them the scars...) but i'm picking nits.... -yogi
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I wonder in most cases how difficult it is to stay out of a knife fight? Does Massad Ayoob's tactic of attaching a $20 bill to a book of matches and throwing it towards the person and telling him to have a couple of drinks on you actually work?

Most people who have never been in a knife fight are in a big disadvantage. If they can get to their knife before they're attacked they're better off keeping to short slashing cuts (and having one of these new 5-inch Cold Steel Vaqueros would be one of my initial choices). Having a knife one has handled a lot and having confidence in helps. But against a determined, aggressive and experienced foe, I don't know what else might work.

-Confed
 
I agree with a lot of what Dawg said and he is right a knife fight is brutal and I would like to add they are very quick. There are a couple points I would like to elaborate on. As for "get something cheap" I disagree, becasue a knife is like any other tool you get what you pay for, I have seen cheap knife blades break off in a person's arm (some of these have been cheap steak knives some have been cheap china folders) because it hit the bone or twisted (as Dawg sad). A knife with a good steel is not going to break off as easily, and remember when your blade breaks you are not knife fighting anymore. The second point that I disagree with, is "do not pick the guy with the fight scars" let me tell you from experience if you are in a knife fight and I don't care who you are, everyone involved is going to get cut the more experienced fighter will not be cut as bad but if he is fighting another guy (girl or kid) with a knife all parties involved will show they have been into something. Remember I am strictly talking about a knife fight, not a knife ambush or using the knife in self defense as in surprising the perp with your knife. Just like Dawg said if you are planing to get into a knife fight take a gun. As far a serrated or plain, I have carried quit a few tactical folders in my day from Emerson CQC7's, Spyderco's, Sebenza, AlMar Sere2K, Micortech's, The CQC7 and Spyderco's were either partially serrated or in the case of the Spyderco fully serrated. I currently carry an Emerson CQC13 Bowie folder, which is partially serrated, I started carrying this knife around last October when my daughter's boyfriend bought it for me direct from Ernie at the Chicago Custom Knife Show. I have grown to like it very much and the partial serrations are dangerously sharp (mainly to me). I hadn't carried a partially serrated knife for about three years (i carried a large Sebenza for those three years). I can do everything with this as i can with a plain edge because this has a full belly with a lot of cutting edge and i like the serrations to cut everything from rope to seat belts to webbed straps. i even carried this with during deer season i didn;t use it to gut my deer but i used for everyhting around camp from food prep to general camp use. I don't mind serrations because they will stay sharp longer and since i am a knife guy i don't mind sharpening them if they get dull. I am sorry if this is kinda long winded but i liked Dawg's response and he sounds like a true professional and sound like guy that like to have a conversation and not just make a speech. just as a note on my background I have been a knife collector and user for many years and i am a veteran Law Enforcement Officer with professional knife fighting training and please don;t take that the wrong way we were trained in knife fighting so that we could learn how to defend ourselves against a close qaurters knife attack which was the second phase of training. The reason out department did this is because so many people carry a knife clipped to their pocket these days. ALL OF YOU TAKE CARE AND KEPP YOUR KNIVES SAHRP!!! OH, one other thing to hara-kiri-yogi when one of your kids are choking or your mother or father is having a heart attack remember those PIGS are probably going to make there first to save there lives!!!!!
 
Guys,

Thanks for the replies. I'll make something clear:

I am NOT looking to get in a "knife fight." The point is to have the most effective tool if a situation arose. Whatever you have on hand you are going to use. The question is: How well will it work?

Your insight has been interesting. I read it all. :cool:
-
Oh, and I agree with Delta about the "pigs." They're (presumably) protecting you and yours, dude.

- Chaya
 
I checked back out of curiousity.Thanks for any kind words regarding MY words.I want to mention that the fight scars comment was more of a warning to avoid B.S artists that over extend themselves. On my team, when we got a FNG, we would see how talky he was up front. The quiet ones tended to be the ones that lasted probation. It has been my experience that the ones that are quick to offer advice or training are ususally the ignorant B.S.'ers. Those that can't do teach etc....RE: The Pigs comment. In every world there's jerks and idiots that reflect on the whole out of porportion to reality.There are bad cops and good cops obviously like anything else. Remember that a street cop with a lot of years on the job is much like a soldier in Iraq. you spend the better portion of your day being spit on and risking injury for what often seems like a murky ideal, you tend to get a little hard around the edges.
 
Sorry 'bout that -- "Hisssom" should have read "Hossom". oh and i guess i should have thought twice before using single-malt induced, sleep-deprived vernacular. My uncle's a cop, and, um, well i'm the first to admit that i'm a jerk and an idiot. have a great easter, all! Oh, Chaya -- I am carrying a semi-serrated sd blade lately, just 'cause it doesn't come in plain edge -- but for said purpose the serrations don't seem to hinder or harm. Peace, hara-kiri
 
That's true about there being good and bad mixed in every group of people in life, Dawg. At least, it seems logical to me.

Thanks, Yogi and Dawg. :cool:

- Chaya
 
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