Communication Issues, What Do You All Think.....

[Marion David Poff]

Good Day,

I have a couple of questions that you all might have insight on.

1) How much do you all appreciate straight-forward questions that punch through hype?

I mean obviously, if the question is directed at your sacred cow, then you will not apprecite it.... But in general?

What if those questions are blunt?

2) Why does quoting someone almost always seem to piss them off?

Example....

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Daniel-san you said....

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">My kung-fu is the best...</font>

I think you may be mistaken, have you considered the length and breadth of the world and the kung-fu therein?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Wax-on, Wax-off is above all else.</font>

Are you acquainted with Whack-on, Whack-off?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The fact that you have asked this question proves the foolishness of your masters teaching and all that you believe...</font>

Well, as they say the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and your movie series is long gone.
---------------------------------------------

I would think that all would pleased that someone had thought enough of one's ramblings to dissect them, and have specific answers/questions/challenges/counters to give.

Hopefully someone can shed some light on this thorny question.

Whack-off....

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Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye mdpoff@hotmail.com

My website, guided links, talonite/cobalt alloy info, etc....
http://www.geocities.com/mdpoff

&gt;&gt;---&gt;Bill Siegle Custom Knives&lt;---&lt;&lt;
-http://www.geocities.com/siegleknives-

"To wait for luck is the same as waiting for death." -Japanese Proverb

"Place you clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark." -Lazarus Long

"We cut things to create things" - James K Mattis

 

[Firebat]

Hey MDP,

"I would think that all would pleased that someone had thought enough of one's ramblings to dissect them, and have specific answers/questions/challenges/counters to give."

Huh?

Yeah, I realize the irony of this reply- but I just don't understand that sentence. Perhaps you could expand on that a bit?

Firebat

insert mile long signature line here

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Name's Ash......Housewares.

 

[steinie]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Marion David Poff:
1) How much do you all appreciate straight-forward questions that punch through hype?</font>

Personally, I love truth and bluntness. Too old and ornery to mess with PC much these days. In fact, I've been written up at work once or twice for not being PC enuff. If something sucks, I'm known for telling them that I think it sucks.

 

[Marion David Poff]

Firebat,

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Perhaps you could expand on that a bit?</font>

My pleasure

I would think that people would be please to see that what they had to say was at least credible/apropriate enough to the fellow posters so as to merit a reply, even if the poster disagrees.

------------------
Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye mdpoff@hotmail.com

My website, guided links, talonite/cobalt alloy info, etc....
http://www.geocities.com/mdpoff

>>--->Bill Siegle Custom Knives<---<<
-http://www.geocities.com/siegleknives-

"To wait for luck is the same as waiting for death." -Japanese Proverb

"Place you clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark." -Lazarus Long

"We cut things to create things" - James K Mattis

[This message has been edited by Marion David Poff (edited 03-18-2001).]

 

[tknife]

I think we all know how hard it is to deliver the intended emotion and so on in typed words. Maybe the intended meaning of something gets taken the wrong way alot because it's hard to tell the writers typed "emotion" on the subject. Hmmm, I think I'm confusing myself, but you get the meaning

 

[Jeff Clark]

MDP, I kind of like direct statements of "fact" and opinion since they provide clear issues to discuss. Sometimes being a bit blunt gives some extra impetus for a reader to enter into a discussion.

The trick to getting a constructive dialog going isn't just being blunt, it is also being clear and explicit. With over 10,000 readers on the forums we not only have many differing opinions we also have a wide range of differing backgrounds. We have not gone to the same schools, we have not read the same things, we don't all watch the same movies, we are not all the same ages, we don't all live in big cities, we haven't even all read the same postings on Bladeforums. So we need help in understanding one another. This means that we need particularly clear writing when we discuss controversial topics on the forums. If you talk about "my mother" and I don't understand what you said, but I don't like the tone; we quickly generate a lot of heat without much light.

So my suggestion is to be "clear" in preference to being "blunt". Don't try and be too terse; use several simple sentences instead of one cute sentence. Use full sentences of American standard English rather than strings of trite expressions. You drag in unintended connotations and associations when you plug in stock phrases in your comments. If you quote people with criticism of what they have said (rather than to join their opinion) they will be sensitive. If your criticism consists of loaded terms and phrases without clear explanation, the original writer will interpret what you say in the worst light.

The way you phrase your questions and observations frequently sounds like you are trolling for controversy rather than contributing to dialog. It's not so much what you say, as how you say it. For example the way you worded this particular topic sounds pompous and patronizing. The implication is that the forums are full of hypersensitive people who have difficulty dealing with issues directly and impersonally. I don't think that this is particularly the case and I can see some fairly ordinary individuals getting a little insulted by your approach. Others will be a little put off, but will mostly be confused as to what your issue is about.

[This message has been edited by Jeff Clark (edited 03-18-2001).]

 

[Marion David Poff]

Jeff,

I was shooting for Ironic, hoping to keep the tone light, but it seems that I have very much missed the mark.

MDP

 

[HUNTER3897]

MDP,

I don't have a problem with it most of the time. What I don't like, and what I think hacks most people, is when one line is extracted out of a paragraph and loses it's overall meaning. Sometimes a sentence needs to be left in context to make sense.

On another note. What is really getting annoying lately, is people who feel the need to quote the entire post of the person who started the thread. What's up with that? Do they think that we aren't smart enough to figure out that their reply is for the thread they posted it in? What a waste of bandwith.

Jim McCullough

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Next time you feel your life is sooo tough, read this- Some American Heroes

 

[stjames]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Marion David Poff:
Jeff,

I was shooting for Ironic, hoping to keep the tone light, but it seems that I have very much missed the mark.

MDP</font>

Irony is when the outcome of your actions is juxtaposed to their intent. Irony can therefore never be intentional. Perhaps you were aiming for sarcasm or pathos?



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James Segura
San Francisco, CA

 

[Marion David Poff]

stjames- I misspoke.

I was shooting for an ironic tone.

I desire no pity. And I have no negative judgement of those I refer to, which sarcasm would evidence.

Jeff- I posted out of a genuine desire to try to understand why being straight-forward and precise in dialogue is so bothersome to some. I am regularly surprised by the reaction that some posts receive.

Myself, I like to "Cut and Paste" so that I can be absolutely sure that I replied to all the apropriate parts of a post, that no point be left undealt with. In private email, I often break the message up, inserting my thoughts throughout, so as to leave no question as to what applies where, and so that nothing is left out.

And to the first question, I find that I get much better information by being direct, sacrificing some of the familiarity in an effort to be exact.

------------------
Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye mdpoff@hotmail.com

My website, guided links, talonite/cobalt alloy info, etc....
http://www.geocities.com/mdpoff

&gt;&gt;---&gt;Bill Siegle Custom Knives&lt;---&lt;&lt;
-http://www.geocities.com/siegleknives-

"To wait for luck is the same as waiting for death." -Japanese Proverb

"Place you clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark." -Lazarus Long

"We cut things to create things" - James K Mattis

 

[Kkimo]

Steinie wrote;

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
Personally, I love truth and bluntness. Too old and ornery to mess with PC much these days. In fact, I've been written up at work once or twice for not being PC enuff. If something sucks, I'm known for telling them that I think it sucks.

</font>

With which I agree. But my dander does tend to rise when someone tells me my opinion/thought/idea/stance sucks, rather than saying that they think it sucks. The difference may seem inconsequential, but to me it is the difference between a personal attack, and a difference of opinion.

Dave

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A syllogism is a logical statement in three parts.
This is not a syllogism.

 

[stjames]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kkimo:
But my dander does tend to rise when someone tells me my opinion/thought/idea/stance sucks, rather than saying that they think it sucks. The difference may seem inconsequential, but to me it is the difference between a personal attack, and a difference of opinion.

Dave
</font>

I try to never qualify a statement I make with "I think" or "In my opinion". Of course it is what I think and merely my opinion, I am but mortal and not omnipresent. Absolute facts are few and far between, and constantly being revised by science. When it comes to opinion, we are all right, and we are all wrong. It is a mistake to disregard someone else’s position on an issue without understanding how they came to their conclusions. Learning from experience should include the experiences of others.



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James Segura
San Francisco, CA

 

[Bugs3x]

Interesting thread.

I think there may be some confusion here regarding clear communication, and the desired impact/result of communication. For example, MDP, in your opening post, you provided 3 examples. The first I believe to be a very appropriate sort of question to ask. The second, however, comes across to me as having an element of getting in one's face, or certainly attempting to embarrass someone.

Ultimately, I believe that true intentions are the arbiter of direct approaches.

One of the great disappointments of my life has been the fact that a value I hold dear -- clear, precise communication -- is so narrowly held. I put a great deal of effort into achieving whatever abilities in that direction I have. Most of the time, I think it was wasted.

I think posting here, particularly on this forum, is semi-close kin to public speaking. Allegedly, public speaking holds greater fears for most Americans than does death. However consciously, I believe most posters have at least some anxiety about their posts. Corrections in spelling, grammer, or just plain factual knowledge are seldom well received, even in private. In public, they are bound to create significantly emotional responses.

Too many posts here seem to me to be primarily the flaunting of one's ego/knowledge, without a real desire to instruct/inform, help.

st james -- I don't use IMO or IMHO very frequently, but on occasion believe they are warranted. Flat statements that effectively equate one's opinion with fact are seldom perceived as helpful, or anything much beyond egotistical. I usually perceive a desire to embarrass or challenge the other person's viewpoint. Often such statements appear to be primarily ego-oriented. I rarely have much respect for a person who seems to seek conflict, or at least dominance, in a conversation.

I have little reputation for tact. I tend to go straight at things. But, despite the age of such habits, I find they accomlish little beyond a momentary gloating. It can make for a very lonely life.

Having said all that, I do need to say one more thing: I'M RIGHT!

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Asi es la vida

Bugs

 

[AJ]

MDP,

I personally appreciate straight-forward communication very much. So much simpler when one does not have to deal with PC-type sensitivities. Blunt questions are part of that straight-forward style and suit me fine.

In response to your question on quoting people, I think that many quotes are taken out of context purposefully to make the quoted person seem (stupid, bigoted, silly, crazy, arrogant, etc.... you can fill in almost any negative word here).

On the other hand, perhaps most of us are simply too darn sensitive for our own good. A thicker hide means the barbs bounce off rather than digging in.

AJ

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Marion, while quoting and frankness do at times generate negative responses, they are not the direct cause. People complain about them but this is a redirect as they don't want to deal with the actual issue as it reveals a very strong bias. Try to find a post where someone complained about quoting and/or brutal honesty where the post was postive, you will not find one.

The root cause is a disagreement, the quoting and directness just makes it very difficult to ignore. There is also the effect of personalization, which quoting introduces very strongly. Problems stem from this because some people cannot separate a critism of a statement/product from the individual who is behind it and thus read almost everything as a personal attack.


-Cliff

 

[Marion David Poff]

Bugs3x-

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The second, however, comes across to me as having an element of getting in one's face, or certainly attempting to embarrass someone.</font>

Nope, exactly the opposite, there are plenty of real examples of what I am talking about, but I wanted the thread to be about the communication, not about the people. And I guess I got carried away with my own lame humour. The phrase "My kung-fu's the best" always makes me laugh.

MDP

 

[Professor]

I've noticed that the long-timers around here have pretty thick skin, and most from the start. People's differences in opinions and reactions to reactions are almost represented in a perfect science-experiment format for the average middle-school student... it's called Bladeforums!

Professor.

 

[Double Edge Dave]

Try as I might, I find no specific knife content here. I think it is a valid topic, worthy of discussion, but not in the general discussion forum. I will be moving it to the community forum for this reason.
Respectfully,
David

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AKTI# A000150
NC Custom Knifemakers Guild member
NC Knife Knuts member