Compact source of Calories for BOB/Large Survival Kit

Sorry, for the long post! It says below that the FDA level of quality for dog food is very low allowing diseased(as in animal died of ?), moldy, fungus etc. Dr. P. F. McGargle, a Veterinarian and a former federal meat inspector, believes that feeding slaughterhouse wastes to pet animals increases their chances of getting cancer and other degenerative diseases. He said, "Those wastes include moldy, rancid or spoiled processed meats, as well as tissues too severely riddled with cancer to be eaten by people."


So Bruce and Wire,

you can be my guest and eat all the dog food you want I would eat onion grass and pine needle tea before I go that route. if you think dog food companies that sell a pint can of dog food for .40 cents are gonna put something that "can" be consumed for humans which they can sell for more money than I got some great knives from pakistan for ya!


I searched NPR archives but it didn't come up under dog food. I think the story was about foot and mouth disease and the problems with feeding animals diseased food.



UNDERSTANDING DOG FOODS AND DOG FOOD LABELS
DISSECTING THE FOOD LABEL - PART I
Much of the information on this page comes from the book
"The Consumer's Guide to Dog Food: What's in Dog Food, Why It's there and How to Choose the Best Food For Your Dog"
By
Liz Palika
You can purchase "The Consumers Guide to Dog Food" from
amazon.com

Reprinted with permission





Every dog food label must include specific information, which is usually divided into two parts:

1. Principal Display Panel
2. Information Panels


Let's start with the Principal Display Panel. This is very straightforward information like the following:



1. Brand Name (i.e., Iams, Purina, Kal-Kan, etc.)
2. Identity Statement which describes the contents of the food (i.e., Chicken Rice, Mushroom and Gravy, etc.)
3. Designator of what class the food is (i.e., Growth, Maintenance, Lite, etc.) and Category of dog (Puppy, Adult, Senior, etc.).
4. Quantity of contents identifies the weight of contents (i.e., 5 pounds, 20 pounds, 40 pounds)


In summary, the Principal Display Panel is like the name of your town. It identifies where you are, but it doesn't tell you how to get around. For a road map of the food, you need to get able to read the stuff on the Information Panel.



Now let's talk about the Information Panel. This tells you about the actual food content.

1. General analysis (shows the "as is" percentages of the food's constituents).
2. Ingredients list (shows ingredients in descending order, by weight).
3. Nutritional adequacy claim (identifies specific life stage for which food is intended and whether animal feeding tests based on AAFCO procedures were used).
4. Feeding instructions (how much of the food to give your dog).
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
The Guaranteed Analysis on the Information Panel of the dog food label lists the minimum levels of crude protein and fat and the maximum levels of fiber and water. "Crude" refers to the total protein content, not necessarily the amount of protein that is actually digestible. What this means is that this is ONLY a crude protein percentage, and fat amounts are rough guides. The actual amounts depend upon the ingredients and their quality.

The amount of moisture in a food is important, especially when you are comparing foods. A food containing 24% protein and 10% moisture would have the same protein per serving than a food with 24% protein listed on the label but only 6% moisture. The thing to consider here is that your are buying water instead of food. This is why it is important to consider the saturation point of the moisture.

The AAFCO guidelines are formulated on a dry matter basis, so that all foods can be compared equally.

can be compared equally.
Guaranteed analysis:- is only a very small part of the nutritional picture. It is also important to note that Phosphorus is directly related to the exacerbation of Renal Disease. Renal Disease is the #1 cause of death in dogs!

INGREDIENTS LIST
Ingredients are listed in descending order, by weight. However, the listings may be misleading. Suppose beef is listed as the first ingredient, causing you to think it is the primary ingredient. Look again. If it's followed by wheat flour, wheat germ, wheat middlings and so on, the combined wheat products may very well total much more than the beef.



ARTIFICIAL COLORING
Many of the artificial colorings used in dog foods have been associated with potential problems. FD&C red No. 40 is a possible carcinogen but is widely used to keep meat looking fresh. Blue No. 2 is thought to increase dogs' sensitivity to viruses. Another color that is commonly used but has not been fully tested is Yellow No. 5. Both Red No. 2 and Violet No. 1 were banned by the FDA in the mid-seventies as possible carcinogens but prior to that were widely used in pet foods.

Interesting as it may sound, the food color used in today's manufacture of foods is not for the dogs. It is to satisfy the dog's owner--YOU, THE CONSUMER!

There's More!

Sugar: is not an ingredient most people would expect to find in dog food, but many foods do, in fact, contain sugar, especially the semi-moist brands. In fact, some semi-moist foods contain as much as 15% sugar. The sugar adds palatability and moisture, and aids in bacterial contamination prevention. Dogs do not need this amount of sugar, which can stress the pancreas and adrenal glands, causing diabetes. Completely devoid of protein, vitamins and minerals, sugar is, literally, empty calories.



Salt: is added to many foods as a meat preservative. Too much salt can irritate the digestive system and can cause a mineral imbalance because the salt itself can upset the calcium / potassium balance in your dog's system. Too much salt can be life threatening for a dog.

REMEMBER QUALITY
The presence of some or all of the ingredients which are the most commonly used dog food ingredients, or an assortment of these ingredients, doesn't necessarily mean that your dog is going to be well nourished. The ingredients must be in the right combinations and of good quality--both before and after processing.

Biological Value - The biological values of the ingredients are a key to good nutrition. The biological value of a food is the measurement of the amino acid completeness of the proteins contained by the food. Eggs are considered a wonderful source of protein because they contain all of the essential amino acids.



BIOLOGICAL VALUE
Eggs 100%
Fish Meal 92%
Beef
Chicken
Lamb
Other Meat's 78%
Milk 78%
Wheat 69%
Wheat Gluten 40%
Corn 54%



Neither wheat nor corn would be an adequate diet alone, but fed together with one or two meat-based proteins capable of supplying the missing amino acids, they could supply an adequate diet.

According to the definition in the 27th edition of "Dorland's Medical Dictionary" "Nutrition" is "the sum of processes involved in taking in nutrients and assimilating and utilizing them".

Nutrients are (Fat, Protein, Carbohydrates, Vitamins, Minerals, and Water) necessary for the growth, normal functioning and Maintaining of life.

The two main points are:
Palatability
Digestibility
So ingredients are only as important as the nutrients contain, how good they taste to the pet, and their digestibility.

Think of ingredients as a big truck and nutrients as produce the truck's carrying. If the truck is trying to go into a tunnel, but it won't fit ( not digestible), it's not going to be able to drop off its load, This would be a poor ingredient to put into a food.

If the truck goes through the tunnel, but only has lettuce in the bed when it could have fit valuable tomatoes, potatoes and onions, then it wasn't a very efficient load. This would be an example of how one pet food manage nutrients within one ingredient (truck).

If the truck isn't allowed into the tunnel because the person at the toll booth doesn't lie the drive, then it's all in vain. the ruck could have the best produce in the world, but it can't get in. This is an example of a dog or cat rejecting the food (palatability).

Digestibility of Food - Digestibility refers to the quantity of the food that is actually absorbed by the dog's system. This can be obtained by contacting the manufacture directly. If your selected manufacture does not have this information you can calculate it yourself. This is how you can figure it out. Weigh the amount of food that you feed and the weight of the stool for several days. Divide the weight of the food into the weight of the stool and you will have the percentage of digestibility. It is important to note here that the stool that you are going to use MUST be dried to the same moisture content as the food you feed if you want to be close. You will also need a little more math than just add, subtract, divide and multiply if you want to be close to an accurate answer. The more food fully metabolized, the higher the digestibility figure.

Quality Before Processing - Understanding the definition of an ingredient is not enough. Many grains grown in poor soil will lack needed vitamins and minerals, and, unfortunately, this is a common occurrence in the United States. Grains and vegetables can be polluted with fertilizer residues and pesticides of various kinds.

Ingredients can also be soiled with mold, mildew, and fungus. The quality of meat can also be suspect. We have all heard stories or had personal experiences of finding bits of hair and other unsavory additives in our hamburger, but the quality of meats used for dog foods is much lower. The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) has said that there is non-mandatory federal inspection of ingredients used in pet food manufacturing.

However, some states do inspect manufacturing plants, especially those producing canned pet foods. In the majority of states it is legal (and common practice) for pet food manufactures to use what are known as "4-D" meat sources--animals that are dead, dying, diseased, or disabled when they arrive at the slaughterhouse. Dr. P. F. McGargle, a Veterinarian and a former federal meat inspector, believes that feeding slaughterhouse wastes to pet animals increases their chances of getting cancer and other degenerative diseases. He said, "Those wastes include moldy, rancid or spoiled processed meats, as well as tissues too severely riddled with cancer to be eaten by people."

In Summary - Dog food labels do contain a lot of information, and learning how to decipher them can take some time. However, the time to do that is not when you're in the aisle looking at all the foods available. Instead, study the labels at home so that you can look at them more thoroughly. Most dog food manufacturers provide pet stores and Veterinarians with boxes of dog food samples. These are yours for the asking. If you get a variety of samples from different companies, you can then study those labels at home, at your leisure.
As you study, keep in mind that there is also a lot of information not freely given on the label such as the quality of the ingredients used. As we know, that information can be difficult to come by and you may need to rely upon the recommendation of experts, including your Veterinarian. You have to consider the price, quality, and reputation of the manufacturer. Also remember that at the present time NO pet food manufacture makes a "Breed Specific" pet food.

Now that you know half of what you need to know about analysing dog food, you are ready for the next page, Dissecting The Food Label - Part II!
 
the rendering of dead animals from the shelter is put in cow feed NOT DOG FOOD. I apologize :o for misleading anyone!

this process is outlawed in europe cause it has been traced to the spread of mad cow and foot and mouth. America still uses it. so a cow that died of some horrible disease can be ground up and fed to other healthy cows.
 
no, don't let this thread go to the dogs!

:barf: arrgh bad pun... *sigh* i'm at work and my brain's not turned on.

BUT lotsa great ideas here... and I guess dogfood is kinda nasty if you think about it. Almost on the same level as drinking out of the toilet bowl... hmmm

however, I'm sure some of the premium brands are of better quality.. and I recall one chain of supermarkets... their buyer incharge of pet goods would routinely sample dog/cat food. No kidding... it was on some special about occupations or something on Discovery. People can eat lots of worse things and still come out ok.

But in terms of practicaity, if I had to stuff a can of pooch chow into my BOB, I'd rather pick a can of stew! I mean, can for can... people food is better.

And the post on ghee is a decent idea too... it also comes as fat so I guess it'll be easier to port... but eating ghee... hmmm gotta pigeonhole it along with drinking oil. Won't do it unles I have to... anything more palatable?

I kinda like the jerky idea... I can find individually packed strips that are easy to stuff... but what's the nutritional/caloric value of that? I mean, how many per serving? Is there a particular brand/packing that you can give as a reference?

So far, the lifeboat rations look like the best bet.

Here's another assumption, rations should last 7 full days. I'm expecting S&R to get me within that time.. and putting a time limit on the duration should limit the amout of food I can reasonably carry. Ah... what about a menu? A variation of foods... I mean lifeboat rations for 14 meals... yech... how much lemon cake flavouring can a guy take??

(hmmm even 14 packs of lifeboat rations will take up a lot of space... damn. any ideas?)
 
Bruce,

When I said that oils lose healthfulness and nutritional value in a matter of weeks, I was primarily referring to Cis configuration fatty acids transforming into Trans configuration fatty acids, due to exposure to light, heat, and oxygen. Vitamin E and other antioxidants present in freshly pressed oils also get used up as they stop oxidative damage.

Yes, I purposely oversimplified for brevity and clarity, but I think that my statement still stands as reasonably sound.

For those who really want to learn in-depth about fats, I suggest starting by reading Fats That Heal; Fats That Kill, by Udo Erasmus.
 
Originally posted by texascarl
Can't wait for the sequel, 'Dog foods that heal, Dog foods that kill'.

:D

down Tex, down boy!!

:p


Thought of something on the way home... what about powdered milk? sorta like infant formula but for adults. Isn't that stuff pretty full of fat and calories?
 
Gee, I never knew my dog food idea would get such a rise out of folks!

I actually read about dog food in some sort of survival magazine at one time. I can't remember where. I have tried dog food, both canned and dry. It didn't taste too bad really. The dry food reminded me of really oily Cheerios. Add some milk to start the day off right! Ha, ha....

Well, it was only a suggestion, and that's what this thread is all about.
 
Gotta chime in here. I've been to "rendering" plants on several occassions because of my job and I know what goes there to be cooked down into protein meal "product" to be subsequently used in feeds and other things. Not even in your worst dreams can you imagine it.

I know it's just controlled recycling but given the things I've read about prions and other stable "infectious" protein strands I don't think it's a real good policy putting this type of recycled protein back into the food chain. However, it would probably be too cost prohibitive to test all the stuff that goes to rendering plants and god knows where we'd put all the dead and by-products of livestock facilities and processing plants if there weren't rendering plants to deal with the waste. Yikes! I don't even think about that.

Well, this is way off topic now. Thanks for the information about lifeboat rations. I'd never heard of those before. Where's the cheapest place to purchase stuff like that?
 
Originally posted by wire edge
I have tried dog food, both canned and dry. It didn't taste too bad really. The dry food reminded me of really oily Cheerios. Add some milk to start the day off right! Ha, ha....

I was tricked into eating choc for dogs once... hell it just tasted like cheap chocolates with too much fat in it. But on occassions I have wondered... you nkow when you open a can of dog food... not the generics, but the better stuff... doen't it smell real familiar?

It always smells exactly like beef stew to me! I mean the regular for people consumption ones! Which led me to wonder if some of the expired beef stew or other canned food is taken off the shelf and returned to the manufacturer to be made into doggie chow... hmmm

just a random thought... and I don't really wanna know the answer.. hehehe...

i tried some powdered milk with a tiny bit of water so it became... milky dough... sweeter than I expected and not at all bad... but I'm not sure about living off this stuff for a few days... anyone know better?
 
Originally posted by Nobody
<snipped>
Thanks for the information about lifeboat rations. I'd never heard of those before. Where's the cheapest place to purchase stuff like that?

Some sailing type stores seem to have (they are CG required for offshore boating, I think), so you may be able to find them locally. Otherwise, Walton Feeds has 'em. I've never dealt with them, but they have a good rep. I'd noticed several of the "disaster Preparedness" type suppliers seem to carry Mainstay (the lemon bars) or Daytrex (individually packed different flavors) rations. Unfortunately I can't recommend anyplace in particular.

Pat
 
Hey guys, I'm not advocating the consumption of dog food. I see no reason to do so, but you could. There are many types of "people" food for which dog food would be a poor substitute -- someone mentioned stew, canned corned beef, canned chicken meat, etc. Your evidence is a book for consumers and an NPR article -- both meant to entertain as much as inform. Find the Code of Federal Regulations cite -- the Federal law -- on such and you'll find a lot of interesting things. For one, does it say on any package of dog food, "This product should never be consumed by humans!"? If not, there is a reasonable expectation by the government and dog food producers that humans just might consume it. I mean, it is sold in grocery stores. Street people consume it all the time because it's cheap.

A marketing person in the company I work for used to be a marketing person in one of the major dog food companies. The work of that firm indicated that dogs eat what smells good to them because their tasteing mechanisms aren't as developed as well as human's are. Also, the taste and smell of dog food is as much for the dog owner as the dog. If the owner doesn't like the smell, he won't buy it or feed it to his dog. ...and the taste panels at that company are made up of both people and dogs! Yes, people taste dog food to ensure it is up to the company's quality standards!!!!

But I digress, I don't have a strong position on dog food since there is "people food" that I consider much better.

Now, Evolute, to your issues. What you say is partially true, there is a cis to trans transformation reaction going on, but your statements seem to indicate that it is a complete transformation of all the cis isomers in a couple of weeks. This is not the case. The rate of cis to trans isomers (by the way, could you draw a cis or trans isomer for me? I mean, do you understand what this means -- not trying to belittle you, just trying to discover your level of understanding). The reaction you speak of is governed by a bunch of rate influencing factors, like concentration of cis isomers to begin with (mono or poly unsaturation sites), temperature, humidity, pressure, % oxygen or other oxidizers, catalysts, etc.

But let me ask you what you think is so bad about trans isomers in the first place. Unless you've given up eating margarine, any cooking oils or shortenings, mayonaise, or anything with "partially hydrogenated ________ oil" you're eating them. Their influence on your health is a hot topic right now, but still being debated.

If you think all cis isomers are converted to trans in two or three weeks, you would be wrong. I would be less concerned about cis to trans isomers than in the development of polymers, oxidative rancidity, hydrolysis products, etc. These are the things that make bad flavors and render the lipid unpalatable.

Well, enough of this. I am partial to peanut butter, nuts, dried fruits, canned meats, making my own biscuits in the woods.

Bruce
 
"If I was hungry, I'd eat the ass out of a skunk, before I starved to death."

BUWAHAHAHA!


:D
 
I was wondering what common (ie super market) foods were best for my BOB. So far I have mostly peanuts, Granola bars, and milk chocolate with a can of Spam thrown in (sorry no dog food). What foods do ya'all keep in your BOB's?
 
to get back on topic

I have 3 days worth of backpacker dehydrated foods besides what I mentioned above, 5 grain oatmeal, 4-5 cliff bars, jerky, peanuts, tea and vitamins.


plus there are some edible plants I am familiar with locating.

so I don't gotta eat skunk a$$!


in all of hoods woods videos he goes into calories and protiens from animals and such.
 
I went with canned corn beef hash for my BOB. I found some CostCo generic one serving cans with the UPC symbol on the outside. They look almost milispec there so cheap, and basic.
Peanut butter, (might replace a can of that with nutella now that you mention it) fruit rollups, gatorade, instant breakfast, frito crumbs, and excedrine for my daily allowance of caffine. I also threw in some multivitamins to buffer the junk.
I know, it ain't health food, but it's cheap, and reasonably lightweight. I figure I can survive the bad nutrition for a couple days, but still have a full tummy, and energy to fall back.
I also calculated the calories to 5000, or 2500 for two days.
 
"What you say is partially true, there is a cis to trans transformation reaction going on, but your statements seem to indicate that it is a complete
transformation of all the cis isomers in a couple of weeks. This is not the case."

I agree that it is not a complete transformation--not even close--in a couple weeks. I did not mean to imply that it was a complete transformation. The amount tranformed from cis to trans in a few weeks under most conditions is likely to be quite small. To my view, the small amount of trans fats generated in a few weeks under most conditions goes beyond the risk level I choose to tolerate, when I can easily avoid it--similarly to how I'd find rather small amounts of arsenic or botulism to be unacceptably high. (Yes, I know that these are much more dangerous substances, and thereby, greatly exaggerated analogies. I'm just trying to make the point that even small amounts can be too much, and complete transformation is not necessarily relevant.)

"...by the way, could you draw a cis or trans isomer for me? I mean, do you understand what this means..."

Yes. Yes.

"just trying to discover your level of understanding)."

I'm not sure how to quantify my level of understanding. I'll be happy to share with you my background (or lack thereof) in the subject. Firstly: a year or chemistry and a year of organic chemistry. Secondly: a longstanding interest and a lot of personally-motivated reading, including a number of grad school textbooks, such as Stryer's Biochemistry (4th edition) and Champe and Harvey's Biochemistry (2nd edition)..

"But let me ask you what you think is so bad about trans isomers in the first place."

Your body can use them to make phospholipids for building cell membranes out of. This can result in cell membranes with different osmotic properties than they should have, which can cause cells to become malnourished, and to back up with waste products.

"Unless you've given up eating margarine, any cooking oils or shortenings, mayonaise, or anything with "partially hydrogenated ________ oil" you're eating them."

I have given up all of the above. Of course, I'm still eating some trans fats: it's quite hard, if not impossible, to 100% avoid them. But I do strive to eliminate them from my diet as much as is reasonably feasible.

Some would surely consider cutting all those out of a diet unnecessarily burdensome. But I think most would not find replacing the oils in their BOB every few weeks to overly burdensome. And that's all I was talking about.

The argument in your "Unless...." sentence seems to me like "Since you're probably getting some in your diet anyway, you might as well toss aside any attempts to minimize your trans fat intake". You don't really want to resort to this kind of argument, do you?
 
Evolute -- I hate it when someone slaps me with reason! Sounds like you've made some good personal choices. I'm probably too close to the trees to see the forest since I work in R&D for a major food company, the one that makes the majority of McD's fries (as well as other fast food restaurants); however, I work in the vegetable area, one of many other than fried potatoes. I'm just so darn sensitive to "warmed over flavors" in meat and oxidized fat flavors that I look for a little protection.

My backpacking buddy from high school made a dish he called "cowboy's delight". It consisted of made up instant mashed potatoes, made up gravy mix, a can of corn, and a can of corned beef. I like those items separately but it was no "delight" as camp food. Once cooked, he just stirred it up until it looked like dog food -- oops, dont' wanna go there!

Regards,

Bruce
 
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