Companies that get it right: steel, geometry, and heat treat

Among my favorite folder steels is Emerson 154CM for all around use, including value, edge, ease of sharpening, retention, corrosion resistance, finish, etc. Good folder steel.

As to the older Schrade-Walden references, the 1095 of my Deerslayer fixed blade (big brother of the Sharpfinger) from the '60's is better than any I've had since. It is perfect 1095 in every way.... tough, sharper than a razor, versatile as hell.

Of course, Buck's 420....my 110, what a blade, what an edge.

I have a Benchmade Panther from the early '90's in ATS-34, I think, that is one of my favorite blades still.

Cold Steel's AUS8A for ease of bringing back an edge on a strop, as well as the keen edge it actually takes. Probably the only AUS8 I'd own.

I've had very good luck with Grayman and Reeve S30V, Reeve BG-42 as well for what it is.

Right now I'm impressed with XHP more than anything.
 
Bang for the buck, my latest favorite EDC seems to be a winner for me. ZT450. I've been using it for 2 weeks and still passes the nail-biting test, but barely. Tuned up with my Kyocera ceramic knife sharpening rod and it is sharp again with a few passes on each side.
 
Heat Treat: Tops, ESEE, or Morakniv. All take a pretty simple steels, and turn them into some of the most impressive wood working steels available(Mainly 1095 and 12c27)

Geometry: Morakniv, Spyderco, and Kizer Cutlery. Let's just put it this way... Crazy Freakin' Sharp!
 
Steel, geometry, and heat treat, who gets it right.......for what. I would propose that the answer would change the question. What may be spot on perfect for one may be sub par for another. You can change any of the variables and still be perfect for something. While a $200 TOPS might not be the best for slicing tomatoes, a $400 Japanese kitchen knife wouldn't baton through a 6" piece of firewood.

There is no "Perfect". Only a perfect for what you are doing.
 
I have only a few production knives, spyderco does it very well.

Of course I always remove a lot of shoulder from my folders.

My japanese kitchen knives are always perfect and only require maintenence.
 
Duane Sanders said:
The high hollow grind on my vantage slices apples and other hard foods extremely well. Right on par with the thin full flat grind spydercos.
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Duane, the Vantage is on my buy list and high grind is a part of that.

knarfeng said:
"Geometry, steel, and heat treat done right"

Buck.

Best 420HC in the business
Best S30V in the business.
The heat treat schedules developed for them by Paul Bos are tops.

For abrasive cutting, their geometry is also tops. Buck makes hunting knives, and EDC knives. If you want to baton, buy something else.

Their combination of heat treat and geometry on S30V will outcut knives in that alloy from Spyderco or Benchmade.
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Frank, I think preference in grinds is like preference in shoe/boot styles or coffee/tea preference. I can only speak about my own experience and preferences.

I like hollow grinds, like on my Bucks, for dealing with meat. But I find they bind up really bad in the kitchen when slicing potatoes, onions, apples and the like. I have a beater recent Buck 110 that I EDC often and I put it on my stones to thin the spine and, more importantly, to flatten the transition from the spine to the hollow. My other current EDC knives are a full flat large Case Sodbuster and a flat convex Opinel #9. The thinned, flatten 110 can pretty much keep up with them know, but the flattening process is a real labor of love. I find the end result to be more versatile, but I wish they came that way from the factory.

As far as abrasive cutting, I don't do much of that. I do a lot more wood working with my knives and for that, I definitely prefer a blade that is a bit thicker behind the edge. I feel that I can control the cut more consistently and thow a curl better without the blade being as prone to dive. Using my old 2 dot 110 next to a more current 110 is place where the difference really jumps out. The older 110, which is quite thick behind the edge, is noticably better for me when working with wood. And of course, using something like a Mora next to a hollow grind blade on wood the diffference really jumps out to me. The Schrade H-15 I posted a picture of above is more similar to a convexed Mora and works wood a lot better than any hollow grind I've used (with the exception of my old 110 with the funny, thick grind).

Horses for courses. Different folks do different things and different things lead to different blades. I find flatter, more convexed blades to be more versatile. YMMV, obviously.
 
When you ask about companies that consistently get it right I think of versatility and for that I've got to go with Cold Steel, knives that are tough and durable, cut well, and function well. Spyderco comes in at a close second with knives that do most things well but generally are not as tough so not quite as versatile. (All that said I still have more Spyderco's)
Can I give an honorable mention to Esee with the exception of the Izula I find them great performers (Izula too but needs to be re-profiled)
 
Bobby3326 said:
I'd have to strongly disagree, Beckers are more than capable of "slicing" with the benefit of being able to withstand hard use. Obviously not all models were designed for slicing, but can still easily accomplish it. Many people use the bk5, 15, and 16 as there kitchen knife.

Tops is another one that has excellent heat treat, and good blade geometry. For a less expensive option I've found the latest offerings from schrade to have a great heat treat and decent blade geometry.
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While people may "use" the geometry for a kitchen knife, it is undeniable that it won't cut with the same efficiency as a thinner knife, let alone a proper kitchen knife. I can move a house with a car, but that doesn't mean that it is the most efficient tool for the job. I get the feeling that people who do "use" them for kitchen knives do so just because of the novelty of it.
 
somber said:
While people may "use" the geometry for a kitchen knife, it is undeniable that it won't cut with the same efficiency as a thinner knife, let alone a proper kitchen knife. I can move a house with a car, but that doesn't mean that it is the most efficient tool for the job. I get the feeling that people who do "use" them for kitchen knives do so just because of the novelty of it.
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Have you personally used them all to come to this conclusion? Or are you looking at pictures of them online and creating an uninformed bias based on appearance alone? Cause anyone who has actually used a bk5 or 15 will attest to how "slicey" they actually are. The blade geometry of each individual Becker works prefect for the intended task it was designed to do, but will also excel at other tasks just as well.
 
I've been in the knife industry long enough to know how a knife will perform when compared to a knife that is properly designed for the task. My conclusions are not based on any uninformed bias on appearance alone. Are your conclusions based on blind loyalty to a brand?
 
somber said:
I've been in the knife industry long enough to know how a knife will perform when compared to a knife that is properly designed for the task. My conclusions are not based on any uninformed bias on appearance alone. Are your conclusions based on blind loyalty to a brand?
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Until you've physically used them everything you say isn't relevant and mere uniformed personal option. You have no data or experience to back up your claims. Until then thou I have nothing else to say to you on the matter, as you bring nothing to the argument of significance.

Blind loyalty to a brand? Lol that's funny. Yea I love my Beckers, but also love my tops, benchmade, and others as well. Beckers don't just have a mass following for sh!ts and giggles, everyone who actually USES them will attest to just how good they are.
 
As a few other posters have stated, there is no best combination here. For my pocket knife uses, Opinel is a good example of getting geometry right. GEC is a good example of choosing a good heat treat. I'm not married to any particular kind of steel. Many low end steels are optimal choices for very high production. Plenty companies choose forgiving heat treat instead of a costlier optimized HT, and make up the difference with geometry. Some sacrifice geometry for durability and exotic steel (and knife nut appeal). And there are plenty of cases of fancy steel, used be highly respected companies, who haven't quite figured out a HT that will take advantage of the theoretical qualities of that fancy steel.

In the end the right combination with one product is a poor choice for another.
 
Bobby3326 said:
Until you've physically used them everything you say isn't relevant and mere uniformed personal option. You have no data or experience to back up your claims. Until then thou I have nothing else to say to you on the matter, as you bring nothing to the argument of significance.

Blind loyalty to a brand? Lol that's funny. Yea I love my Beckers, but also love my tops, benchmade, and others as well. Beckers don't just have a mass following for sh!ts and giggles, everyone who actually USES them will attest to just how good they are.
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All right, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Take care, champ.
 
Most of these are pretty subjective, or relative to the task they're supposed to do.

I will say that I do find that the Kabar/Becker HT and geometry is pretty good (for the 9 and 16 in particular. The 9 has a wider chord than the other models, and although its still thick stock, it slices better than the 10/7) for general use woods knifes. However, they make awful kitchen knives, and I've commented to that effect several times in the Becker subforum. While the 15 is better than most other Becker models (its thinner, and has a good belly and distal taper), its nothing like my Tojiro DP, or other "real" kitchen knives.

However, that's not a knock against the Becker, as they're just not designed as kitchen knives. And yes, I have, and use both the 9 and the 15, so I can say that :p.

I also agree on the Mora, Opinel, and Victorinox choices. So far all of the ones I've had have had good edges, and they keep them for as long as I'd expect them to (unlike the past few Gerbers I've used for instance). The Mora is great for its use as a wood carving knife (not great at slicing though, because of the grind that makes it good at wood carving), and the Opinel is my favorite fruit/food knife as it slices like nobodies business.

Otherwise, my ability to comment is a bit useless, as I don't own/haven't used most other brands (Spyderco, Benchmade, etc). The one Kershaw I own seems to have good HT though, if that's worth anything.
 
ocnLogan said:
Most of these are pretty subjective, or relative to the task they're supposed to do.

I will say that I do find that the Kabar/Becker HT and geometry is pretty good (for the 9 and 16 in particular. The 9 has a wider chord than the other models, and although its still thick stock, it slices better than the 10/7) for general use woods knifes. However, they make awful kitchen knives, and I've commented to that effect several times in the Becker subforum. While the 15 is better than most other Becker models (its thinner, and has a good belly and distal taper), its nothing like my Tojiro DP, or other "real" kitchen knives.

However, that's not a knock against the Becker, as they're just not designed as kitchen knives. And yes, I have, and use both the 9 and the 15, so I can say that :p.

I also agree on the Mora, Opinel, and Victorinox choices. So far all of the ones I've had have had good edges, and they keep them for as long as I'd expect them to (unlike the past few Gerbers I've used for instance). The Mora is great for its use as a wood carving knife (not great at slicing though, because of the grind that makes it good at wood carving), and the Opinel is my favorite fruit/food knife as it slices like nobodies business.

Otherwise, my ability to comment is a bit useless, as I don't own/haven't used most other brands (Spyderco, Benchmade, etc). The one Kershaw I own seems to have good HT though, if that's worth anything.
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Hey man, nothing wrong with your choices so far. I would like to suggest getting a good military or pm2 though. You might be surprised how much better the performance can be. I know I was.
 
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