Competition Cutting with a Busse? What is the best choice?

PeterPHWS

PeterPHWS

Joined
Dec 31, 2005
Messages
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We have over here a fledgling BladesportUK organisation which is affiliated to the US Bladesport. I am thinking of giving this a go and have been looking at what knives I have which I could use....at least initially.

The rules are simple...no more than a 10 inch blade...2 inches wide...and the knife needs to be 15 inches over all.

Initially I fancied using my FBM.

100_0333-1.jpg


I have thinned it a bit on the edge and can get it so it can cut through phone books...

100_0381-1.jpg


But the over all length is just to much...around 16 inches...the blade though at 10 inches and 2 inches wide is fine. It is the handle that is a bit too long.

The next knife down in size which does fit in is the Basic 9.

100_0287-1.jpg


It is exactly 15 inches long...and the blade comes in just under 10 inches. The blade though is only 1.5 wide and it is a bit light as a result compared to what is likely to be competitive. None the less this might be the one.

If so there are a couple of things I could do with knowing....what is the best way to sharpen the asymetrical edge? There were some instructions I believe with these when they first came out....anyone able to help here?

The Basic 9 was I think the knife Jerry used when he did the live rope cutting demonstration at Blade...so it certainly has some pedigree here...but the rope was'nt free hanging as far as I know.

Some other info on this blade such as the Rc hardness it was taken to would be of interest....and also whether sticking with the asymetrical grind is the best solution...or take the edge to a proper convex? Anyone ever done this modification? It looks like you would loose too much metal on the edge to me....the cast off on the asymetrical aspect is quite pronounced...so I would prefer to keep with the edge as is....but would welcome anyones views who have used them.

The other option is to go with a FSH...these qualify on the overall length...and the width of the blade is a full 2 inches. Here is a comparison shot with the Basic 9.

100_0284-1.jpg


The weight of the FSH's is more than the Basic 9. Particularly this one which has a .28 thickness on the spine.

FSHCLIP6.jpg


That might well translate to better overall chopping ability...but the speed you can get from the Basic 9 with the longer blade might make up for this.

Another option I considered was the DFLE...

100_0309-1.jpg


The blade length is 10 inches and the width is 1.75...but the overall length just goes over 15 inches at 15.25...plus the SR77 steel is not quite as long lasting on an edge as Infi.

So the choices really boil down to the Basic 9 or a FSH...with a FSH how thin have people taken down their edges to? By this I mean the angle inclusive. The steel should be at around 56-58 Rc so any experience on this side of things would be welcome as well. I normally go for around 20 degrees either side or 40 degrees inclusive on an edge...basically working off what Spyderco suggest is an optimum angle for mixed use and what they use on their Sharpmaker. What I find a bit staggering is that the competition knives are...if the figures are correct...progressing down from a 3/8th spine to 16-17 thou at the edge on thickness of blade and being convexed. Using trig maths this gives a 10-11 degree "inclusive" edge...which allowing for things like scalpels being sharpened for a 17 degree inclusive edge...makes you aware how far off the pace you are with a 40 degree inclusive edge.

But I don't want to ruin my knife...so how acute would it be sensible to take a sharpening angle to? I am thinking 36 degrees inclusive would be about as far as you could sensibly go? Again....anyone with any experience on this...please chime in.:thumbup:
 
First of all, the safety police are headed to your AO right this second. We've tracked you based on your internets connection and are coming to confiscate all of these dangerous weapons. You might injure or kill one of our lovable rogues who rob people but are really just nice kids and junk. If you don't want to be injured during the assault, curl up in a fetal position in the center of your living room and don't move. ;)

Second - I'm a big fan of the Basic series. My sharpest Busse ever was a Basic 5 that would cut me if I looked at it wrong. You can get them pretty sharp. Some say the handle is too small, but I have above-average hands and find it fine.

And Jennifer used one to cut free-standing rope. I'll have to find the .gif of it. It's on here somewhere.

Found it:

attachment.php
 
First, let me encourage you to "go for it".

Second, I'll give you some very subjective input. I've had a standard DF, HH FSH, and a couple of Basic 9 users. The B9 was my first "family" knife and got me hooked. I used it to split all of my firewood on an overnight camping trip. I batoned the snot out of it. I got it stuck a few times and had to use both hands on the baton to carefully remove it. No edge damage, still very sharp. Fast forward almost a decade. I went back to the B9 and the handle felt a little short to me, for whatever reason.

I had a CG DF and thought it was a beast, almost too heavy, and I prefer the rounded choil. I hear the DFLE is a little lighter/thinner. For the money, it might be worth considering modifying/shortening the end of the handle/tang.

I like a FSH, but ended up with a HH FSH, because that's what I was offered. The HH felt too thick for it's length, IMHO. Whenever I held the HH, I kept thinking, "I wish the blade was a little longer...". So how about the CGFBM. With the CGB, thinning the edge should be easier, and you could shorten as necessary and not have to grind on the LE, although there was a FBMLE with the rear lanyard hole removed on the exchange recently.

You might also want to check the measurements on the Battle Rat and the Rat Mastiff, although I've heard that a lot of the folks competing prefer rubber scales.

Just my .02 cents....


GregB
BaconBeavers
 
Ergo Battle Mistress or even better, a Zero Tolerance Battle Mistress, because of it's thin stock, and add full convex the edge.
 
gimmejr said:
Modified FBM would be my choice.
Click to expand...

Well with mine that would mean grinding the rear pommel away back to the linen canvas grips and re-shaping them. It could be done I suppose.

I would like to know the OAL of the SHBM's....particularly those that were hardened to 62Rc...I am sure some of the early ones had a high Rc treatment.

Of all the Infi that's out there...the high Rc treatment ones are the most likely to be able to work well on a thin acute angle. They might be the best option of what has been done so far....if they come in at 15 inches or can be modified for that OAL.
 
is that a FBM LE? I don't see the number and the handle is different, but it is a full height and in satin...
 
Dennis in MA said:
First of all, the safety police are headed to your AO right this second. We've tracked you based on your internets connection and are coming to confiscate all of these dangerous weapons. You might injure or kill one of our lovable rogues who rob people but are really just nice kids and junk. If you don't want to be injured during the assault, curl up in a fetal position in the center of your living room and don't move. ;)

Second - I'm a big fan of the Basic series. My sharpest Busse ever was a Basic 5 that would cut me if I looked at it wrong. You can get them pretty sharp. Some say the handle is too small, but I have above-average hands and find it fine.

And Jennifer used one to cut free-standing rope. I'll have to find the .gif of it. It's on here somewhere.

Found it:

attachment.php
Click to expand...

Wow! The Basic 9 looks to be quite promising for this sort of use. I like it's balance a lot....very dexterous for delicate cuts...I think I will give this one a whirl....

The Zero Tolerance Battle Mistress is interesting....but hard to find...no doubt though it ought to be a good choice. If Jerry is doing the Bushwacker Mistress....doing a run of them with a 15 inch OAL would be interesting as well.
 
Liu Kang said:
is that a FBM LE? I don't see the number and the handle is different, but it is a full height and in satin...
Click to expand...

No it is'nt an LE...I got it at Knob Creek...they were described as a Satin Military Overun...it had my favourite black linen grips on it and once I shaped them to fit the knife is very comfortable....I just recently re-ground the front of the spine to drop the point slightly...and to give a nice 90 degree angle on the end for using a ferro rod...it works even better now if I need to use the point.:thumbup:
 
I think you'll be suprised how well the basic 9 does. I used a SH-e LE at a GTG and it did much better than anyone thought it would. Cut free hanging rope pretty easily. A little short for the 2x4, so it took a little longer. Did pretty good on the water bottles, too.
Can't wait to see pics!
 
I have an INFI version of a comp knife that I made for the ABS tests nearly 10 years ago. . . They wouldn't let us compete back then because the blade was not forged. . . . That is one of the reasons that we started doing our own LIVE tests at BLADE 99.

I'll see if I can dig it up and post some pics. . . . :thumbup:

It is UGLY!!!!!!! :eek:

Jerry :D
 
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Jerry Busse said:
I have an INFI version of a comp knife that I made for the ABS tests nearly 10 years ago. . . They wouldn't let us compete back then because the blade was not forged. . . . That is why we did our own LIVE tests at BLADE 99.

I'll see if I can dig it up and post some pics. . . . :thumbup:

It is UGLY!!!!!!! :eek:

Jerry :D
Click to expand...

I'll take it :-)
 
PeterPHWS said:
No it is'nt an LE...I got it at Knob Creek...they were described as a Satin Military Overun...it had my favourite black linen grips on it and once I shaped them to fit the knife is very comfortable....I just recently re-ground the front of the spine to drop the point slightly...and to give a nice 90 degree angle on the end for using a ferro rod...it works even better now if I need to use the point.:thumbup:
Click to expand...

wow, that's sick, I need to get my hands on one of them, got an extra one laying around?
 
No ...sorry...I have'nt a spare one...but KC will be happening again in the Fall and you might find one there...:thumbup:
 
Jerry Busse said:
I have an INFI version of a comp knife that I made for the ABS tests nearly 10 years ago. . . They wouldn't let us compete back then because the blade was not forged. . . . That is one of the reasons that we started doing our own LIVE tests at BLADE 99.

I'll see if I can dig it up and post some pics. . . . :thumbup:

It is UGLY!!!!!!! :eek:

Jerry :D
Click to expand...

Can't wait to see it!!:thumbup: Funny how things change....now they cannot get a forged blade to work at the thin edges they are using....
 
Jerry Busse said:
I have an INFI version of a comp knife that I made for the ABS tests nearly 10 years ago. . . They wouldn't let us compete back then because the blade was not forged. . . . That is one of the reasons that we started doing our own LIVE tests at BLADE 99.
Click to expand...

Now that you can use a factory knife will Busse compete?


Look foward to the pics!
I think many would want this knife if put in production:thumbup:
 
Mass is good, but velocity and form are better. Plus, a thinner blade stock is going to cut better than thicker, especially in non-chopping events. A Heavy Heart gives you more thickness to re-work, if you wanted to do a convex zero edge or some heavily-modified geometry, but otherwise I think the thinner blades would do better. HH might be a useful training tool - practice with the heavier knife to build up strength and precision.
 
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