Composite Blade Knives

[GatorFlash1]

That one has a laminated blade.

I'm confused. What is the difference? It is a blade composed of two different types of steel. Are composition blades as you define them an alloy of two different steels smelted at the same time into sort of an alloy?

PLease explain the difference to this big dummy. Tks.

 

[RamZar]

Zero Tolerance Composite Blade folders: 0888, 0777, 0560CBCF, 0350CB, 0350CBZDPST, 0350CBZDP.

 

[RamZar]

I'm confused. What is the difference? It is a blade composed of two different types of steel. Are composition blades as you define them an alloy of two different steels smelted at the same time into sort of an alloy?

PLease explain the difference to this big dummy. Tks.

Start reading from post #24 on down in the Thread: Kershaw / ZT Composite Blade knives.

 

[Morrow]

No love for the kitchen cutlery RamZar?

 

[RamZar]

The Shun Sora line has composite blades.

Kai also has the Seki Magoroku line that offers composite blades.

No love for the kitchen cutlery RamZar?

I dig them. Whether I'd get one is another story. I do have a Shun Higo Nokami DM5900.

There was a stunning Shun Hoshi at the Blade Show last year with a copper/stainless steel blade.

I appreciate the Shun Sora composite technology which is different in that it uses both a composite and a laminate: "Shun Sora’s proprietary Composite Blade Technology brings together a VG10 3-layer san mai cutting edge with a mirror-polished Japanese 420J stainless steel upper. This technology puts high-performance material exactly where it’s needed—on the edge."

 

[Knivery]

Composite is when you attach an edge to the knife, right?

I guess this isn't composite but I sure like my BK 11csm. It's san mai - - Hitachi White Steel 2 between a decent stainless. A sandwich. I really like the knife.

 

[RamZar]

Composite is when you attach an edge to the knife, right?

I guess this isn't composite but I sure like my BK 11csm. It's san mai - - Hitachi White Steel 2 between a decent stainless. A sandwich. I really like the knife.

Yes, composite is to attach via a weld.

The BK11CSM is a laminated blade as in a sandwich. Carbon steel core of Hitachi White Steel 2 sandwiched between two layers of 410 stainless steel.

 

[RamZar]

Here are some of the Kershaw folders with composite blades: Tilt 4100SW, Speedform 3500, Tyrade 1850, OCC 1000, Junkyard Dog II 1725, Junkyard Dog 2.2 1725CB, Junkyard Dog 2.2 1725CBBLK, Rake 1780CB, Leek 1660CB.

 

[RamZar]

Thanks to Morrow's artful and appreciated prodding I'll have my Shun Sora 2-Piece Starter Set (VBS0200) next week. There's a Shun Sora 6 inch Chef's Knife and a 3.5 inch Paring Knife. Both for just under $100 delivered.

Looks like high quality plus both composite and laminated technologies all in one blade: "Sora uses Shun's proprietary Composite Blade technology to bring together a VG10 san mai cutting edge with a Japanese 420J stainless steel upper. This technology puts high-performance material exactly where it's needed—on the edge. The two blade sections are laser cut, then fit together like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. Braze welding permanently joins them. The attractive wavy pattern at the joint is based on traditional Japanese sword hamon lines."

 

[ToddM]

I find the composite blades very interesting in the display of new technology, but they almost seem like an answer looking for a problem at least in pocket sized folders. Even with some of the more "delicate" high end steels we just don't see posts of people breaking EDC sized folding blades. Now if you had a fixed blade or chef knife or something I'm sure there's advantages in impact resistance, prying, flexibility, stain resistance etc. that could be gained. Don't get me wrong we see lots of popular folding knife trends these days that have nothing to do with improving actual functionality.

Also cost, while perhaps new technology and prices might come down, for now it seems all these composite blades are significantly more expensive than a whole blade made of even the higher end edge steel, and one has to wonder how the braze welding will hold up long term, the spyderco method seems less likely the bond would fail. I don't know much about it but it seems unlikely that it's stronger than one slab of blade material. Though in reality probably more than strong enough not to fail in a folding blade used normally. There's also the potential issue of expansion/contraction rates if two different metals are used. Though again probably not a big issue since most folding knives probably don't see significant temperature extreme changes.

It's interesting but $470 MSRP for a composite blade with an S90V edge CF PM2, or $280 MSRP for a full blade of S90V PM2 CF unless you just really want something unique that's a no brainer.

 

[RamZar]

I find the composite blades very interesting in the display of new technology, but they almost seem like an answer looking for a problem at least in pocket sized folders. Even with some of the more "delicate" high end steels we just don't see posts of people breaking EDC sized folding blades. Now if you had a fixed blade or chef knife or something I'm sure there's advantages in impact resistance, prying, flexibility, stain resistance etc. that could be gained. Don't get me wrong we see lots of popular folding knife trends these days that have nothing to do with improving actual functionality.

Also cost, while perhaps new technology and prices might come down, for now it seems all these composite blades are significantly more expensive than a whole blade made of even the higher end edge steel, and one has to wonder how the braze welding will hold up long term, the spyderco method seems less likely the bond would fail. I don't know much about it but it seems unlikely that it's stronger than one slab of blade material. Though in reality probably more than strong enough not to fail in a folding blade used normally. There's also the potential issue of expansion/contraction rates if two different metals are used. Though again probably not a big issue since most folding knives probably don't see significant temperature extreme changes.

It's interesting but $470 MSRP for a composite blade with an S90V edge CF PM2, or $280 MSRP for a full blade of S90V PM2 CF unless you just really want something unique that's a no brainer.

Other than a technological exercise and showing off manufacturing prowess, composite blade technology was about cost savings and in some cases aesthetics. I think it's great that knifemakers try out new materials and manufacturing techniques. Some of the seemingly unreasonable costs especially with the recent Spyderco CPM-154/S90V composite is simply due to the limited number produced and a brand new manufacturing technique. I would not underestimate the strength of good welds. The old venerable Saturn V F1 rocket engines were a masterpiece of welds everywhere!

 

[Apec]

I'd like to see custom composite blades one day.

That Spyderco PM2 CB sprint caught my eye, but the asking prices now are ridiculous. I lucked out on my M390 military a while back, but I wasn't satisfied with the F&F of the knife and sold it later after making a user of it.

 

[JuJu-]

Ramzar, there is also the kershaw made 90 ann. snap-on tanto fixed blade with wrench pattern.

 

[dishcore]

Zero Tolerance Composite Blade folders: 0888, 0777, 0560CBCF, 0350CB, 0350CBZDPST, 0350CBZDP.

My brain actually melted from this picture. Ramy, that is unreal. Kudos to you bud!

 

[RamZar]

Received my Shun Sora 2-Piece Starter Set (VBS0200) (6 inch Chef's Knife and a 3.5 inch Paring Knife) last night (just under $100 delivered). They're super sharp and really show off both the laminated edge and the composite portion.

"Sora uses Shun's proprietary Composite Blade technology to bring together a VG10 san mai cutting edge with a Japanese 420J stainless steel upper. This technology puts high-performance material exactly where it's needed—on the edge. The two blade sections are laser cut, then fit together like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. Braze welding permanently joins them. The attractive wavy pattern at the joint is based on traditional Japanese sword hamon lines."

Here's a nice video from Shun showcasing the Sora:

[video=youtube_share;9Lg2AkkgBqs]

 

[Apec]

Received my Shun Sora 2-Piece Starter Set (VBS0200) (6 inch Chef's Knife and a 3.5 inch Paring Knife) last night (just under $100 delivered). They're super sharp and really show off both the laminated edge and the composite portion.

"Sora uses Shun's proprietary Composite Blade technology to bring together a VG10 san mai cutting edge with a Japanese 420J stainless steel upper. This technology puts high-performance material exactly where it's needed—on the edge. The two blade sections are laser cut, then fit together like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. Braze welding permanently joins them. The attractive wavy pattern at the joint is based on traditional Japanese sword hamon lines."

I like the braze pattern on that. I actually prefer it to the more uniform/repeating patterns they've used in the past.