Composite handle material ?

Upstream

Upstream

Joined
Jul 1, 2005
Messages
760
I've had these for several years but i don't think I've ever posted them here. A couple of them came from e-bay, the ones with the numbers written on the blades came from AG Cutting Edge around the same time. I don't think they are celluloid because there are no signs of shrinkage. I remember looking at the catalogs on LRV's site, but I'm don't remember coming up with a match.
Just tought I'd stick-em up here.
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P.S. The one in middle of the first pic is a Schrade Walden, the others are Schrade Cut co.
 
That is some nice "rough black" and I think the same stuff they used on the smooth black. Some of it was called celluloid in earlier times, according to the catalogs, but by the mid 60's they simply called it "Black Plastic" or "Stagged". I believe some might be the same "Bakelite" they made old telephones out of. Still Rick, the old stuff does not shrink on a Schrade Cut knife. Nice lot you have there too. :thumbup: Here are a few blackies I have... no oldies like yours.

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speaking of old phones i have one in my basement and it is still functional. course when you make a phone call and they ask you to pick 1 or 2 you might as well hang up. and the black is not shrunken at all.
 
I doubt if your old phone is made of celluloid. It's very different from other types of plastic and one of it's main characteristics is that it breaks down and shrinks over time. I've even read here on the forums that most collectors keep their cell knives well away from the others because it emits a very corrosive gas as it breaks down.
 
Upstream said:
I doubt if your old phone is made of celluloid.
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Rick, I agree, and my point was neither are your non-shrinking black knife handles. I've seen a few descriptions of knives using Bakelite for handles. Not Schrade. In their catalogs, I've seen black and ivory celluloid, k-horn, red fiber, fibestos, marine pearl, and stagged used for different plastic handles. The worst shrinkage I've seen on Schrades is the yellow plastic 835Y. I'm thinking there were quite a few versions of "celluloid".

I do know the ones they labeled as celluloid, were the smooth black knives, and the rough black was usually termed "stagged".

Interesting topic.
 
thawk said:
I'm thinking there were quite a few versions of "celluloid".

I do know the ones they labeled as celluloid, were the smooth black knives, and the rough black was usually termed "stagged".

Interesting topic.
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I think you are right Hal.... interestingly though if that pattern # is correct ( S2264 3/4 ) According to this catalog the 4 after 6 would indicate a cell handle. I'm wondering if they went to a different type of plastic and still called it celluloid . I'm not sure what the ST3 at end means?
This is from the AG Russel 1926 reprint.
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Rick, I think that's "STG", which would indicate stagged celluloid. It seems the black celluloid handles held up better than the colored ones shrinkage-wise. Beautiful collection you have there!!

Here's an example, an old improved muskrat with it's catalog picture, note the number:

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Eric
 
Thanks Eric, I e-mailed a gentleman up in your neck of the woods and he said they were correct.. along with a lot of other interesting things.
 
No problem Rick, an interesting thing to note is that the Stg handles don't actually show up in the catalog until the 1936 supplement, which leads me to believe that they were a new handle at the time. This would explain why it's not in the original Catalog E as an option. Also, black Fibestos handles were introduced at around the same time, with the Stg moniker being given to them as well when staggged. Might be difficult to tell the two apart other than the fact that fibestos had a duller finish. I myself have no idea how to tell them apart other than maybe putting a match to them :eek::D

OK, so what were the other interesting things, you're leaving us hanging :confused:;)

Eric
 
While we are waiting for Upstream's other interesting items... I have quite a number of celluloid knives. A few of them have problems. Most don't. Some are nearly 100 years old. The Schrade blackies are as good as new. The 835Y I have is doomed. I suspect most cell knives of yore are mostly dead and gone. The ones that I see for sale that look ok to me are often headed to my shed. I don't fear them at all. I do keep them separate. Here is one that is headed in my direction. Bad listing. I took a chance. No telling what it will be like:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280822217543?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
 
Seems like it'd be worth a shot Cal, you don't see many of that Cut. Co. version around. At least the visible part looks to be in pretty darned good shape, might bode well for the rest.
 
There is a 2264 in the catalog. The S meaning a 'special' combo and the 3/4 meant a clip. The 2264 in the catalog shows a few cell handle options.
Weren't the inked blades salesmen samples?
 
ea42 said:
OK, so what were the other interesting things, you're leaving us hanging :confused:;)

Eric
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I didn't mean it sound like I was holding out on something but anyone that knows LT knows that he doesn't give short answers. He basically said that around 1941 Schrade started experimenting with other types of plastic and that these were increasing in value because the handles cannot be easily duplicated, and that the salesman's samples are nice because they validate the time frame they started.

Thanks Rick
 
Nah I was just busting your chops, I figured that's who you heard from. I'll bet even Rich would be drooling over your examples, look like they just came out of the factory. Thanks for the info!

Eric
 
My experiment paid off. These were offered in all the usual handle materials, one blade or two, and flat-ground or saber-ground. This one is new, with some ick. Never touched a stone. Mirror polished blade, both sides, saber-ground. My scanner doesn't show bright metal, so you must trust me. No shrinkage or gassing of celluloid. I like it.

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That was a good score. Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against celluloid...but I have seen the dark side of some of it.
It's funny if you goggle "Pyralin" it leads right to celluloid.
 
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I think I read all of that at least once and forgot most it. Still an interesting read.

I call these the Good the Bad and the Ugly.
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