Comprehensive Steel Comparison Chart Attempt

What is the most important attribute in a steel?

  • Total voters
    90
Tommy-Chi said:
We cannot help that KA-BAR makes knives almost exclusively out of 1095...so I bought the only ones made out of S35VN and D2.
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Because the coolness factor goes up due to the rarity of that model of knife in those specific materials, rather than the rarity of the materials themselves.
 
Ten_Mile_Knives said:
To address this, all I can do is describe what "Toughness" meant when I was making the chart. Because I am reading and listening to peoples opinions, there is no rigorous definition for the numbers. I was looking at things primarily in the light of edge failure rather that total failure of they blade or "BASH". So something with a low toughness score is either chippy and brittle or soft and rolly..
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These are opposite qualities. Low toughness = chippy and brittle. Low hardness = soft and rolly. Normally lower hardness is the cost of achieving higher toughness - they are trade-offs.

A problem I see with this ranking is that any of the toughness / edge retention numbers on the chart can be changed just by changing the hardness / heat treat. So I think what's missing from this project is what typical hardness the steel is at in order to produce those numbers. That would give better idea of edge stability by letting people say things like "This steel is listed as super high toughness on the chart, but its typical hardness is listed as only 54RC. So regardless of the toughness the edge stability would be poor because it would easily roll and warp... so it would be good for axes with an obtuse geometry, but not for thin knives made as choppers" or "This steel is listed as tough but also has relatively high hardness so it should have great edge stability even with an acute geometry". E.g. Busse heat treat produces INFI at hardness 58-60RC yet is still insanely tough.

Great project by the way. :)
 
Mecha said:
Because the coolness factor goes up due to the rarity of that model of knife in those specific materials, rather than the rarity of the materials themselves.
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I love KA-BAR Knives but I've been harassing them to provide a fully exposed tang model for their fighting knives. I'll buy a few if they make them, even in 1095, which is not a horrible steel to me!
 
Currawong said:
These are opposite qualities. Low toughness = chippy and brittle. Low hardness = soft and rolly. Normally lower hardness is the cost of achieving higher toughness - they are trade-offs.

A problem I see with this ranking is that any of the toughness / edge retention numbers on the chart can be changed just by changing the hardness / heat treat. So I think what's missing from this project is what typical hardness the steel is at in order to produce those numbers. That would give better idea of edge stability by letting people say things like "This steel is listed as super high toughness on the chart, but its typical hardness is listed as only 54RC. So regardless of the toughness the edge stability would be poor because it would easily roll and warp... so it would be good for axes with an obtuse geometry, but not for thin knives made as choppers" or "This steel is listed as tough but also has relatively high hardness so it should have great edge stability even with an acute geometry". E.g. Busse heat treat produces INFI at hardness 58-60RC yet is still insanely tough.

Great project by the way. :)
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I agree. We need typical HRC numbers.
 
Mecha said:
So what you're saying is, the best way to ascertain coolness factor would be to ask people you think have coolness credibility what they think is cool and take it from there?
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I'm willing to rate knives "coolness factor" in my spare time for everyone, I just need a web portal, and a form that accepts credit cards. Say $25/month?

I've spent around $17,000 on knives in just a year and a half, so I cannot be all bad.

:cool:

Isn't that what all the folks on Blade Forums do? And Twitter? Or YouTube? I'll rate everything too fixed through folders.
 
I see a fledgling meta-analysis. A well designed meta-analysis with a clear question, discussion of the quality of information available and discussion of bias can be valuable. Need good stats friends though...they are hard to find like math nerds.

Would be cool to see that Ten Mile. Thanks for the post and the thought that went into your work to this point.
 
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Ten_Mile_Knives said:
the decimals were a result of some steels performing just slightly better than others according to testemonial.



the point is not to say H1 is more corrosion resistant than O-1, it's to show that if you are a fisherman and you value corrosion resistance then O-1 is probably not the best choice for you.



M4 is a great steel because of it combination of toughness and edge retention, but it scores lower because of its poor corrosion resistance. however steels that place higher like M390 have good edge holding, good toughness and good corrosion resistance.

It sounds like you love M4 because it excels in areas you value, it's "the best" for you. And the chart reflects this, it's really up to the user to figure out what they value and then choose a steel from the chart based on that.

Vanax is on top because it does well at a lot of things so the addition of the three categories puts it on top. it's not the best in any one category but it does well across the board just like M390 or Elmax or many of the other "favorite" steels out there.

people can argue that there is no best steel, but if I say I want edge retention and toughness for cutting up boxes then M4 will always be better than 1095.
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One of the interesting things about knife cutting contests is evaluating the steel in the blades the contestants use in the contests. I think if you look at the results you will find more M4 steel blades than you will M390 or Elmax or just about any other. These folks are trying to win big bucks in the contests so they would not skimp on blades. I don't have corrosion issues with my Spyderco Gayle Bradley, maybe because I wipe it down and give it a drop of Breakfree CLP after any heavy use to get the gunk and grime off of it.

Here is an interest post you might enjoy.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/rusty-m390.1601880/

The only truly rustproof steel I have encountered was the H1 steel on the Spyderco Pacific Salt I gave an ocean fisherman friend of mine. He raves about that knife.
 
I've found myself referencing the chart listed in post#1 quite a lot. Not as a definitive guide for ranking, but as a starting point for further research. It helps me figure out which steels I'd like to know more about. It's helped me buy a couple of custom knives in steels I wouldn't have otherwise considered. So despite the (very legitimate) debate in this thread about the benefits or limits of this kind of approach, to me, it's been useful !

So thanks T Ten_Mile_Knives . :thumbsup: Have you done any more work on this project?
 
Currawong said:
I've found myself referencing the chart listed in post#1 quite a lot. Not as a definitive guide for ranking, but as a starting point for further research. It helps me figure out which steels I'd like to know more about. It's helped me buy a couple of custom knives in steels I wouldn't have otherwise considered. So despite the (very legitimate) debate in this thread about the benefits or limits of this kind of approach, to me, it's been useful !

So thanks T Ten_Mile_Knives . :thumbsup: Have you done any more work on this project?
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I've done some minor number tweaking and added a few steels, is there anything you would suggest I can do to improve/add to it? I've recently made a few knives out of CPM-4v to test out, referencing my chart, 4v/vanadis 4e seemed like the ultimate non-stainless outdoors knife to me so I'm putting it to the test in a 6" general camp knife and a 4" puukko-style knife. I can post some pictures if there is any interest but it's still too soon to form a conclusion. I'm mainly comparing it to O-2 and A-2 which I am more familiar with working with.
 
Good Luck. some much of this is subjective and there are more charts out in knife land than you can shank a stick at! (pun intend) but please make a chart, if you think it will help.
 
Ten_Mile_Knives said:
I've done some minor number tweaking and added a few steels, is there anything you would suggest I can do to improve/add to it?
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Mainly just wondering if you'd been adding new steels, but looks like you have.

I also wouldn't mind seeing heat treat variations listed e.g. normally treated 3V is different to Delta 3V; 4V / V4e can have a stock heat treat, or specialist heat treat for cutting competitions which greatly improves edge stability, etc.
 
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