Concealed Knife Laws (VA)
- Thread starter EDCBlader
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Got pulled over once, cop asked if I had any weapons. Said I had a couple knives, and he asked for them. Pulled the 14 out from under my shirt and he put it allong with a couple others on top of the car. Gave them back at the end, and didn't say anything about it being concealed.
Ymmv.
Ymmv.
If you don't mind me asking, what city was that in?
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Right outside Sterling.
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I was wondering this as well. From my understanding as long as its not consealed its ok. Probably has allot to do with where your at to though. I live in wythe county, VA and have seen lots of people carry them openly. But then again this area has lots of farms around. Do the same in say Richmond and may run into trouble. One area it would be considered a tool.. Another may be a weapon
I am in Central Va. and just retired from law enforcement. The general meaning we were taught is it cannot be "hidden from common observation". Be careful on folding knives. Each locality can set its own in munincipal code. Richmond has a limit on clasp(locking) folders of blade lengths.They cannot be over 3.25 inches.
I found that, according to case law, carrying a fixed blade that isn't a fighting knife is legal.
http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opnscvwp/1080445.pdf
If you read the entire opinion of the courts, I'm thinking that even though I'm carrying a fixed blade, my bk14 should still be legal because it does not have the distinguishing characteristics of a dart or bowie knife. It doesn't have 2 cutting edges, a hilt, and it isn't designed for thrusting.
http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opnscvwp/1080445.pdf
If you read the entire opinion of the courts, I'm thinking that even though I'm carrying a fixed blade, my bk14 should still be legal because it does not have the distinguishing characteristics of a dart or bowie knife. It doesn't have 2 cutting edges, a hilt, and it isn't designed for thrusting.
Still, don't get caught with it concealed in VA. "of like kind" will burn you.
In the case law that I preciously linked too, and even in this case <SHAKA AMIR FARRAKHAN v. COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA> where in both cases a convicted felon was charged with carrying a knife "of like kind", Both felons in both cases had there convictions reversed, vacated, and dismissed because their knifes weren't fighting knives similar to a bowie, dagger, or a dart knife which are all fighting knives designed for stabbing with either 2 sharp edges or a hilt to the protect hand from being cut when thrusting or stabbing. According to the highest court in VA in more than 1 ruling, a non tactical/fighting fixed blade without thrusting combat features, even when being carried concealed by a felon, is legal to conceal and carry. You may be arrested be arrested by a misinformed offer, but it will be thrown out in court.
Then you had better hope you get the same judge to overturn your case after your conviction.
It's case law. There's WAYNE THOMPSON v. COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA 2009, JOSEPH H. HARRIS, JR. v. COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA 2007, BRIAN E. WOOD v. HENRY COUNTY PUBLIC SCHOOLS 1998, SHAKA AMIR FARRAKHAN v. COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA 2007, etc... I don't need the same judge because all these cases involving knives and the "like kind" clause all say that carrying a fixed blade that isn't a fighting knife is legal. These cases have been decided by the highest courts in Virginia (Virginia Supreme Court) which means all lower courts and judges must adhere.
A fixed blade could only be of "like kind" to a dart, dagger, sword, or bowie. The VA supreme court states and I quote, for a fixed blade knife to be of like kind to a bowie knife, it must be:
My bk14 isn't a fighting knife and does have a guarded handle aka a hilt, so according to the VA Supreme court, it can NOT be considered of like kind to a bowie knife.
They also stated for any knife to be "of like kind" to a dart or dagger:
So to be "of like kind" to a dart or a dagger, the knife must be designed for stabbing purposes and have a protective guard (a hilt). My fixed blade knife does not have a hilt and isn't designed for stabbing/fighting.
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lazy otter
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I live in richmond city and know a lot of police so here is what I got .....fixed blades open carried are okay and I carry a large bowie sometimes and sometimes a blackjack lite hawk now that I just got 1 just don't conceal it. Notice it says hidden from common observation. I'm not a law pro but I've done this for years and never had 1 issue and I also open carry a firearm even though I got a CHP which is only good for handguns but if you saw me with all my tattoos and a fixed blade knife and gun you would think my interactions with law enforcement would be horrible but nope nothing but good experiences.
Police aren't the best source for law advice. What one may think another may disagree with and can charge you. Then what you were told before won't matter and your freedom will be in the hands of a judge and prosecutor. Yea a bowie or anything that looks anything like a bowie is a no go unless carried openly. All fixed blades aren't illegal to conceal carry but you have to make sure they look nothing like the forbidden knives.
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lazy otter
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Your absolutely right. Officers opinions maybe different and I by no means would recommend carrying a Bowie the size I do (omnivore knives Americana) I also carry a swamprat 411 a lot to. Where in VA may make a difference to the closer to DC the tone on knives and guns changes in my opinion. I was just speaking on my experience in VA I may or may not be with in the law sometimes with my knife carry in VA I just make sure my fixed blades aren't concealed and conduct myself in a professional manner.
lazy otter
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The funny thing is I've called state and local police about concealed carry of Hawks with blades no longer than 3 inches and no1 can give me a answer
That's because the VA code says nothing about blade length excepting as regards schools (must folding metal blade of less than three inches on school property).
https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.1
Other than schools and school property: "A. If any person carries about his person, hidden from common observation, (i) any pistol, revolver, or other weapon designed or intended to propel a missile of any kind by action of an explosion of any combustible material; (ii) any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, machete, razor, slingshot, spring stick, metal knucks, or blackjack; (iii) any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain; (iv) any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart; or (v) any weapon of like kind as those enumerated in this subsection, he is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. A second violation of this section or a conviction under this section subsequent to any conviction under any substantially similar ordinance of any county, city, or town shall be punishable as a Class 6 felony, and a third or subsequent such violation shall be punishable as a Class 5 felony. ..."
"Bowie knife" is not defined in the code.
https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308
In Delcid v. Commonwealth, the Supreme Court of the Commonwealth held that a jury (or judge in a bench trial) decides whether any knife fell within the meaning of a word (bowie) or a term (of like kind) used in the VA Code.
Decide carefully what you'll do as you risk arrest for a misdemeanor (first offense) or a felony (second and subsequent offenses) and a jury (or judge for bench trials) deciding the meaning of bowie, dirk, of like kind, etc..
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I would not conceal carry any large blade or a blade that has more than 1 edge, has a hand guard on the grip, or has the characteristics of a bowie knife. The curve on the hawks or a karambit will most likely exclude it from being able to being considered a "stabbing weapon" of like kind to a bowie according to multiple case law definitions of what a bowie knife is:
Keep in mind that although it will get thrown out in court, officers can basically charge you with what ever they want based on their opinion and their opinion alone whether it's clearly wrong or not. There are dozens of cases, other than the Delcid v. Commonwealth case that leghog just mentioned, where judges have thrown out these type of cases over and over again. Those cases also clearly layout in detail what features a knife must have to be considered "of like kind" to a bowie or dirk, so "being of like kind" is not as ambiguous has it use to be and as many assume.
Me personally, being that I'm not a felon or plan on conceal carrying a knife while in the commission of a crime, I doubt any officer would charge me (every case I've read, except one, involved felons and all of the cases were reversed). Also, if I know that I'm carrying legally, I'm not going to allow the hypothetical possibility of 1 misinformed officer improperly charging me to intimidate me, and with all the current case law on my side, I personally have no problem defending my right to carry concealed in court. Basically you have to make the decision for yourself.
Yet case law also indicates a judge need not throw out a case and allows him (bench trial) or a jury (jury trial) to decide what the knife is thereby determining if its concealed carry was legal or illegal. Bottom line is that VA Code sucks when it comes to knives and specificity.
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