Concept for a VERY special Khukuri

Jim.
Handle weight differences are not significant. Blade weight is everything. It's just a matter of configuration.
Dan
 
Ooops, knew I'd forgotten somthing. Doesn't California prohibit shipping in double edged blades as does Massachusets?

No problem, just ship the thinly ground top false edge unsharpened. That way Uncle Bill doesn't get into trouble and Jim, like most other purchasers, puts the edge he wants on it after he gets it.
 
WRONGO, Rusty!

There is no double-edge rule whatsoever in CA law. There is no rule on shipping such critters.

What you're probably referring to is Smoky Mountain Knifeworks or other major catalogs...let me explain what's going on:

A couple of small towns decided there was big profit in suing cutlery importers because cheap combat knives were being used by juvenile delinquints(sp?). We're talking small towns here, acting in conjunction with crooked judges. They sued Smoky and a few others for "deliberately shipping in the type of knives used by crooks and dumb kids"...to protect themselves, Smoky put those dumb little "not for Calif" stamps on a variety of peices...but they still come in through other sources.

The only way Bill could get "popped" is if he sold one to one of these crooked town's city attorneys in disguise...as long as he knows who he's selling to he's in no danger whatsoever. Even if they did think about doing a buy, the price level of the Khukuris and the low volume ("shallow pockets") of Bill's company versus a big name like Smoky will turn them off completely.

Don't worry about it, guys. Seriously...Bill, if you have any remaining questions on this contact James Mattis, he's highly regarded, he's a CA knife dealer and maker. Heck, check the Chai website, you'll see that he sells high-end double-edge knives from out-of-state and he knows CA knife law better than I do.

Jim March
 
It looks like we may have a rare case of designing by committee that is working. For whatever it's worth the kamis are probably not going to go for a stock removal method. They do not like to even polish heavily because they feel this compromises some of the work they have done to make the blade tough. Of course, these guys are very inventive and I suppose the could do some stock removal on a billet and then do some pounding and hardening later. Kamis generally do not have a power grinder available so I am unsure what use they will make of it -- but if there is a way they will find it.

Kami will be here in just over a week and I think at that time we can get this firmed up.
But as Jim has said, this khukuri will not be a pry bar that cuts. It has a specific purpose and is designed to fulfill that purpose.

Uncle Bill
 
Jim, you are absolutely right about me thinking of the warnings in SMKW catalogs. Touche!

Having said that, I'd be hesitant to do some things in California even if they were down in black and white in the state's laws and constitution as expressly legal. At least til the state begins requiring a mental competency test for it's DA's and AG's.
 
Yes, let's stay legal by all means -- if it is possible and still breathe. Hopefully, our resident attorney will advise us.

Uncle Bill
 
Bill, by all means check with a lawyer...but you'll find I'm right
biggrin.gif
. You can legally open-carry double-edge, there's no rules on sales, they're sold in every knife shop.

Rusty, remember that Smoky sells a lot of $10 - $20 price range stuff that appeals to kids. Ask any cop - if a knife is used in a crime, 99 times out of 100 it's a junk blade, either kitchen, Pakistani or Taiwanese. Knives with value of $100 or more are almost *never* misused...in this sense, those towns "sorta had a point" where Smoky was concerned, although it's still not valid.

Bill, I am REALLY looking forward to Kami's comments when he gets in. I'll try and draw a better diagram showing the "heft flow" than Yvsa has come up with...he's proposing to keep the same mass of metal all the way down to the tip as would be on a normal one, but "redistribute it" towards the center instead of the spine in the double-edge area.

Note that with most of the spine still single-edge, all techniques where you support the spine with the off-hand will still work.

I'm wondering if we should do some sort of "roughness" along the spine so that your off-hand can't slide tipwards so easily when doing such support? Very light checkering, perhaps? Might be a useful safety feature...

Jim March
 
Jim, if you want to do a serious drawing (be sure to show enough cross section views to define what you want) and email or mail it to me I'll show it to Kami as soon as he recovers from jet lag and we will be off and running. I am certain we can get a decent facsimile made in shop 2.

We have a forumite who is a knife collector and lawyer. I'm sure he will be reading this thread with great interest and will keep us on the straight and narrow -- and I am betting he will also end of with one of these
"dubegjim" khukuris.

Uncle Bill
 
Uncle Bill,
I have a hard enough time keeping up with the assininities of the Texas Legislature and courts, let alone the insanity which passes for law in the People's Republic of California. Forumites are welcome to explore the search function at http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html to discover for themselves whether they can figure out, for example, just might be included in the term "dagger" in the once wild-and-wooly Bear Flag Republic. I think the proposed new khukuri design would likely be an illegal Bowie knife regardless of size here in the former Republic of Texas, where that knife's namesake died for our independence at the Alamo. There are so many weapons laws, subject to so many interpretations, it's no longer possible to follow the advice of that other Alamo hero Davy Crockett: "Be sure you're right, then go ahead."
Berk
 
The closest anything I chopped at came to fighting back is hurling pieces of itself at me.

To improve on draw speed the Chainpuri handle seems to be the way to go. The Hanuman handle also has this effect.

Will
 
Here's a first try at diagramming the "heft pattern" of the proposed hybrid. Much credit to Yvsa for the concepts, and I hope he'll comment on this.

I hope this crude drawing is clear?

chain2.gif


What's not shown is the new differencial temper pattern...I would leave that totally up to the Kamis. The new upper edge would not get a lot of use (I hope to GOD not!
smile.gif
) so it wouldn't need quite the same rockwell...5 or even 10 points less than the traditional primary edge rockwell should be fine.

Jim March

Jim March
 
That's a good starter, Jim. Enough for talking but we may need a scale or half scale drawing before it is all over.

Uncle Bill
 
Bill, I'd need Chainpuri photos to start from. As you can see, the vast majority of the piece (grip, most of the blade) would be identical to normal. The actual pattern of transition from single to double edge would probably have to be worked out "right at the hammer"?

In other words, I'm not certain we CAN produce a blueprint for this, not an exact one at any rate.

One thing that concerns me is the lack of double-edge knife and sword patterns in that part of the world. This could be a "whole new trip" for your guys, which is why I don't think "locking them into one plan" is a good idea?

I'll be very interested in Kami's opinion when he comes in. Or anyone else's, for that matter...

Jim March
 
You are right, Jim. Maybe simply a Chainpuri with modified last four or five inches is what we want. We will get the opinion of the boss when he arrives and recovers from his 12,000 mile jet lag.

Uncle Bill
 
:
Looks pretty good Jim.
I would start taking the profile view at the far left into the start of the fullering though.
That one pic of the not quite a Chainpuri Kuhkuri with the very heavy fullering should be close to what you might want.You have the end exactly right.

Like I said before," like the fullered end of the broadsword going into the main point." or something close to that anyway.
I need dayum-ed "etchasketch" on this screen!! LOLOL.
The fuller should gracefully become the edge you have drawn.IMO.
I believe it will be an awesome looking blade finished like this.
It will be the fighter you are dreaming about too,I believe.
smile.gif




------------------


>>>>---¥vsa---->®
The civilized man sleeps behind locked doors in the city while the naked savage sleeps (with a knife) in a open hut in the jungle.

 
After seeing what we got in today's shipment there is little doubt that shop 2 can do this blade.

Uncle Bill
 
:
I can only imagine Uncle.
After seeing that "Tic Tac Toe" Kuhkuri I have no doubts either.
These were already the best knives in the world.
Perhaps now they can be called the best knives in the Universe?

One thing about it.If anyone off planet objects to that,they will have played thier hand.
wink.gif


------------------


>>>>---¥vsa---->®
The civilized man sleeps behind locked doors in the city while the naked savage sleeps (with a knife) in a open hut in the jungle.

 
Yvsa, my problem is I don't know enough about
the "unmodified form" fullers or other blade
shape details to be able to properly document
the transitions between that and the double-edge
area. Which is why I ended up saying "this
part is totally normal, then transition to
THIS kind of thing".

Right? Now, if I had detailed PICTURES to
start with (hinthintNUDGEgrin!)...

Jim March
 
:
Okay.I see what you mean now Jim.
Check out the Gelbu Special.It has the Chainpuri cho and the blade is fairly deeply fullered.
If you have a printer try printing the pic.I have found that this makes the pix clearer and cleaner than displayed here AND with Much more DETAIL.!! Caps for emphasis.
smile.gif


Mine are very nice anyway considering I am getting the pic on a 27" TV screen,but printing the pix brings out detail I can't normally see.

This may give you enough data to come up with a little better detail.
Perhaps an e-mail to Uncle is in order if he has the time to e-mail you some pix.I think that may take less time than postng them?
Try the printing thing again?

One other thing you might have a better idea with is... Are you familiar with the Atlanta Cutlery or any other Yatagans? These were the original Indiana Jones Khyber Bowie knives?
They were made with a thinnish very pointy blade with a very heavy spine on top.Almost like an I beam without the bottom I believe the design is said to have been made to penetrate chain mail.
These are similiar to the blade of a Kuhkuri except they are straight of course.

I believe the similairities are close enough to make some drawings with.
Do you have any Kuhkuris at all or maybe someone who lives close enough for you to look at one?

Maybe one day Bill Gates and the rest of the webtv bunch will realize people buy these things for the interenet instead of tv enhancement.That's a scary thought now isn't it? LOLOL.
If they ever do they could fix these things up to where a scanner could be used.
If I had a vid cam I could send the drawings.Hmmm.I will talk to the kids and see if I can use thiers and figger out how to hook it up.
That may be more worthwhile than I thought.
I would have to do it in e-mail though.You could maybe post it from there if necessary?

------------------


>>>>---¥vsa---->®
The civilized man sleeps behind locked doors in the city while the naked savage sleeps (with a knife) in a open hut in the jungle.



[This message has been edited by Yvsa (edited 30 August 1999).]
 
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