Concept Rats!!! - Rat Jack & Bog Dog II

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Jul 21, 2005
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O.K. I have been wanting to put my concept ideas in visual effects for a while, I just haven't had time. But, here we go.


I want to outline a little about "why" I have come up with my two concepts.

First of all, I strongly feel that the Ratmandu and HRLM are both awesome knives and absolute classic hits in the knife world!!! :thumbup:

Unfortunately, I am honestly not too fond of the M6. Sorry everybody.

To me the M6 is way too heavy for what it can do..... all that weight (16.5 ounces) and it really isn't a good chopper. And it is too heavy and bulky to be good at most anything else. ----- I should rephrase that and say: Heavier and bulkier than "I" prefer....


I am personally very good with the two knife concept. One knife to do most tasks and one larger knife.

The RMD and the HRLM are both darn near perfect for most tasks short of chopping and battoning.

But, if I want to batton or chop, I would much rather have a larger knife than the M6 and I feel the M6 isn't ideal for most utility type tasks - too big, heavy and bulky (IMO).

The Camp Tramp actually weighs 2.0 ounces less than the M6 and will chop circles around the M6.

The S6 is the Scrap Yard Res-C handled version of the M6. The S6 has a thicker blade and a full height grind. It weighs 4.0 ounces less than the M6 and feels much better and much more balanced in "my" hand. Because of the more forward weight, even though the S6 weighs less, I feel the S6 is a slightly better chopper and much more nimble for most other tasks.

The Yard Guard is a much larger knife and way better chopper than the M6 and still weighs 0.5 ounces less than the M6. I think a lot of people are missing out on the Yard Guard as almost being a comparable replacement for the Camp Tramp!

I don't mean to sound like I am bashing the M6. It is a nice knife. But, to me, the M6 just falls in no-mans land.

Another knife that I have that is actually similar in length, but much better balanced, much nicer feel and much more usable - unfortunately much more expensive...... - Is my Busse SJTAC!
My SJTAC weighs about 13.0 ounces and is slightly longer.

M6..........................= 16.5 ounces; .234" thick; 6" blade; 11.68" oal
SJTAC….(stripped)….. = 13.0 ounces; .194” thick; 6.375” blade; 11.875” oal


The SJTAC has probably my FAVORITE blade shape for this sized knife and a great shape for many other sizes as well. But, the SJTAC handle is a little too slender and not as comfortable as the Ratmandu/HRLM handle design.

So, my concept is to come up with a M6 sized blade that is lighter and more suited for mid-sized general tasks. I don't feel a knife with a 6" - 6.5" blade is ever going to be a great chopper. But, there are many good uses for a blade this size if it is balanced right. (IMO).

So, I will combine my favorite details of certain knives...:

- SJTAC blade shape - Full height grind (or nearly) AND Convex!!!

- Ratmandu handle shape, but slightly taller and a tad longer for a slightly larger knife. Not as bulky as the M6, but more scale thickness than the SJTAC.

- Pull the choil in closer for better comfort when choked up and more blade edge.

- *** Skeletonize the handle under the micarta scales!!! - Since the Swamp can obviously skeletonize the tangs, I consider this an option that would greatly improve the balance, feel, and weight of a knife this size and STILL be plenty strong enough!

- I don't feel that a knife this size needs to be as thick as the M6, but that is a personal preference and subject to debate and intended use. Since I don't feel this would be a good chopper and I do consider it to be more of a larger general use knife, I would prefer less than the M6's .234" thickness, but maybe a tad thicker than the SJTAC's .194" - So, somewhere between .2" and .21" (???) - Since I propose skeletonizing the handle, the handle of the concept knife should be considerably lighter than the M6's and the blade would probably be similar to just slightly lighter than the M6's blade. I would think the concept knife could net out pretty close to the 13.0 ounces of the SJTAC. The slight weight increase by increasing the steel thickness and scale thickness would be offset by the skeletonized handle and net out about the same. The SJTAC balances well.

- I humbly request a satin LE option.... ;)



Rat Jack Concept:

SwampRat-ConceptRatJack-1.jpg

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Next to Ratmandu:

SwampRat-RatmanduwithConceptRatJ-2.jpg

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Between HRLM and Ratmandu:

SwampRat-HRLMConceptJackG-10andRatm.jpg

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With concept sketch of skeletonized tang:

SwampRat-ConceptRatJackwithskeleton.jpg


... notice the cut-out areas have rounded inside corners to help reduce weak-spots! ...... I assume Busse has the blanks laser cut (????).


:thumbup:


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Bog Dog II - Concept

(.... my submission for a Swamp Rat - Bush Knife!)

Everybody loved and wants a Bog Dog or Dog Skinner and there has been discussion of a Bush knife.
I personally think the HRLM and Ratmandu are both awesome utility/multi-function knives, etc.. (.... I am probably repeating myself )

But, for a Bush knife, I think the Bog Dog has certain advantages. Mainly in weight and blade-shape.

The Bog Dog had a blade shape similar to the SJTAC, but smaller.

My concept for a great Bush knife would combine some of the Bog Dog characteristics and the HRLM/Ratmandu handle, but a little slimmer and lighter in the handle.

Ironically, this would be a smaller version of my Rat Jack Concept....

Here are the dimensions of the HRLM and the Bog Dog:

HRLM.....= 9.0 ounces; .190" thick; 4.13" blade; 9.3" oal
Bog Dog = 5.0 ounces; .140" thick ; 4.75" blade; 9.56" oal


I propose the Bog Dog II have dimesions close to:

Bog Dog II = 7.5 ounces (?); .175" thick; 4.375" - 4.5" blade; 9.4 - 9.5" oal


Feature details - See Rat Jack above! But, key features include:

- Skeletonized tang

- Similar handle to HRLM/Ratmandu, but slightly slimmer handle proportions - height and thickness

- Blade shape similar to Bog Dog, but with slightly less drop than older Bog Dog and slightly more belly, but still pointy - see comparison pick of Concept Bog Dog II vs. older Bog Dog - or basically a smaller version of SJTAC blade

- Choil in closer for better comfort when choked up and more blade edge.



Concept Bog Dog II

SwampRat-ConceptBogDogII.jpg

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Under HRLM and above old Bog Dog and Ratmandu:

SwampRat-HRLMConceptBogDogIIBogDogR.jpg



:thumbup:


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I would also like to mention:

I am really looking forward to the some of the smaller upcoming Swamp Knives:

- Rat Hunter LM
- Bandicoot LM
- Baby Coot LM

All of these look like great designs, but I feel all three of these would likely benefit from skeletonized tangs as well to help keep weight down.

One of the great things about Res-C is the lighter handles. But, I do love micarta and if the tang is skeletonized, you get some of the best of both worlds!!!

Further, I would love to see some skeletonized LE-light versions of the HRLM and Ratmandu!!!

I think the weight savings would be subtle but nice improvement.

Just some thoughts....



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Love the Bog Dog 2 concept design. If it feels anything like the HRLM, it would be a winner. Thumb depression on spine like the HR would be nice.
 
You, DWRW, are a concept-chop master! I like the Bog Dog concept A LOT! But the Rat Jack?! Awesome!!!

Great ideas! I would love to see this come to fruition.
 
Knifeguy, I really like that Rat Jack Concept you've got there. It looks like a great camp knife.
I've never held an M6 before, but my RMD feels well balanced at about the first fastener. Don't know if thats true for the M6, but I would think a skeletonized tang in a larger blade would shift the balance forward? Wouldn't this make a big blade a little nose heavy for a non-chopper?
Also, I like the reduced choil and the full height grind. Nice job.
 
Love the Bog Dog 2 concept design. If it feels anything like the HRLM, it would be a winner. Thumb depression on spine like the HR would be nice.


Thanks Iuke12, I am glad you like it.

I agree with the thumb depression. I sort of drew/edited/photo-chopped the thumb depression into my photo. It isn't visibly real obvious, but if you look closely you can sort of see it on both concept drawings.

I like the thumb recess on the HRLM a lot, BUT I would want the ramp to be the exact same distance forward of the lower grip/guard area.

I like thumb ramps and recesses If and ONLY if they fit right. The HRLM and Ratmandu do fit right (for me). But, many other knives with ramps have not been good for me. I don't like when my thumb falls on the peak of a ramp.

The Yard Guard and SJTAC are two examples of where I didn't like the position of the thumb ramp. I have had to grind away and reshape those thumb ramps.

I also have a two tone Dog Skinner LE from Extraveganzaaa. It is a gorgeous knife, but the ramp is off for me on it as well.

If it is done right, I like it. If not, it is annoying.

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Knifeguy, I really like that Rat Jack Concept you've got there. It looks like a great camp knife.
I've never held an M6 before, but my RMD feels well balanced at about the first fastener. Don't know if thats true for the M6, but I would think a skeletonized tang in a larger blade would shift the balance forward? Wouldn't this make a big blade a little nose heavy for a non-chopper?
Also, I like the reduced choil and the full height grind. Nice job.


HoleyM,

I don't want to make it sound like I am some sort of fanatic about balance. But, I do have certain balance and feel preferences and they vary from knife to knife. My main issue with the M6 is overall weight.

The RMD actually balances very well and right between the first fastener and just a nudge forward of my index finger in grip. I don't have any real problems with this. But, I also have the G10 which is just a tad heavier in the handle. I don't really have any problems with the "Balance" on either of these knives. But, I wouldn't have a problem with this particular knife having a slightly more forward balance either. And I think just shaving some over-all weight would be an improvement. But, I wouldn't want to take any weight away from the blade on the RMD. So, the weight would need to be reduced from the handle. This would shift the weight/balance slightly more forward, but I think it would be fine.
Since Swamp Rat is pretty much micarta (and sometimes G10 now ?), my suggestion for skeletonizing the handle is the most realistic way.
There are quite a few knife-makers who have skeletonized their tangs, so I don't think there should be any concerns about idea infringement and the technique works well. The handle should still be way more than strong enough if the cut-outs are engineered half-way decent - relevant to the size of the knife and steel thickness, radiused corners, etc..

The HRLM balances just behind my index finger in a grip. This is OK, but I would prefer to shave an ounce or two from the handle if possible on the HRLM. I am pretty confident I would prefer this.

The M6 actuall balances just slightly forward of my index finger in a grip. This may seem ideal to some people. But, for me, I just feel the M6 is too heavy period.
The S6 is basically the same design as the M6 but, with a much lighter Res-C handle. It is not really a chopper either, but it feels much better in my hand. The S6 feels very nimble compared to the M6 which feels more like a heavy dumbbell (to me ;)).

For comparison:

M6................= 16.5 ounces; .234" thick; 6" blade; 11.68" oal
Scrapper 6 LE = 12.5 ounces; .268" thick; 6.25" blade; 11.44" oal

The S6 weighs 4 ounces less than the M6 and most of the weight is from the handle. The S6 actually has a thicker blade, but a different full height blade grind probably makes the S6's blade a tad lighter than the M6's blade.

I would guess the S6 balances about .625" - .75" forward of my index finger

I can personally distinguish that the handle "specifically" of the M6 does feel VERY heavy (to me).
Since it is not really a good chopper and only has a 6" blade, it should be more of a larger general purpose use knife (IMO). But, it is just generally way too heavy (IMO). The M6 is too expensive to be an anchor. :D

This is a generalization, but apparently I personally prefer knives with 5" - 5.5" or larger knives having slightly blade forward weight - even if not for chopping. I can't nail down or describe any exact preferences and these things depend on design and intended use.

I prefer smaller 3.5" - 4.5" knives to be more neutrally balanced.

In my concept for the Rat Jack, I suggested the skeletonized handle because it will reduce weight from the handle AND over-all weight. The blade-thickness that I recommended is thinner than that used on the M6 and should decrease some of the blade weight as well.

I believe balance and over-all weight as described would come out similar to my SJTAC (at least that is my theory). The SJTAC balances probably about .25" forward of the index finger and I like the feel quite a bit.

My concept for the Bog Dog II has a slightly smaller blade - similar in length, but not as tall, so less blade weight.
My concept also would have just a slightly more slender (in height) handle compared to the HRLM. This slight handle reduction would not change the handle weight much. But, I already beleive that a skeletonized HRLM handle would be an improvement (I still love the HRLM as is :thumbup: - just some little detail I feel would be an improvement). So, I definitely feel having a skeletonized handle would be an improvement on the Concept Bog Dog II!

I still think it would be very worthy on the Rat Jack as well.

This is all just my opinion.

Different people will definitely have different opinions. But, I am trying to explain each part of my concepts as best as possible based on my opinions.

:thumbup: :thumbup: ;)

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I totally agree about the M6 ,I sold mine because it was awkward and heavy.
I love my HookGuard and don't get why the CT is considered better. I much prefer the recurve ,it gives more edge length and some slicing and weight advantage.
7 inch blades look perfect with the large Res C handle. A CT in profile looks like the draming you would see in the dictionary next to the word "knife".
 
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