Condursal Z1100

Stuart Davenport Knives said:
Practical? Yeah, that's what I am sort of after, along with the convenience. I fail to understand your point, Stacy. A 10 foot roll of 321 is more expensive than one quart of Condursal. How many blades does a 10" roll give you? I am not really sure, as I never counted. But it's just a 10 foot roll. Maybe a couple dozen at the most, depending on size????

This quart would coat literally a hundred blades, if not more. A couple of dozen blades at $80 vs a hundred or more for ~$63, plus the added convenience of just being able to paint the stuff on. No dealing with making pouches, risk of cutting yourself, the ease and convenience of going right from the plates into cryo, without the hassle of removing from the foil, and as I said in the previous post, many times the foil just welds itself to the blade.
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For me. The foil packets were a lot more convenient. At least than atp (also i found it didnt protect the blades well anyway).

But as far as convenience. I find its easier for me to just make a packet and leave it in for whatever thermal cycling i am doing. And then if its a high alloy steel that is getting plate quenched i can still just leave it in the same packet for that too.

Where when i was using the antiscale. I had to paint on a new layer, and dry it every time the blade gets heated and cooled.

Idk if this is an issue with just atp or other antiscales also. But because some areas end up being a little thicker than others. When i plate quench with them on. It would always lead to warps because the plates werent clamping it completely flat like foil.

The one area that i think antiscale wins, besides maybe price, is doing the final quench on low hardenability steels.
 
I think white spray paint is probably a decent option.

Graphite.. depending on the steel, and the austenitizing temp. Might actually be the opposite of decarb. You could possibly end up with a carborized layer on the surface. If only slightly.
 
A side comment on white paint:
I use the white metal marking paint pens to mark bars of steel so I know what type of steel it is. I mark both sides on both ends. If I cut a piece off the bar, I remark the cut end right away. This prevents orphan bars of steel in the shop that I have no idea what they are. It also leaves the mark on the piece I cut off.
The white markings really stay on well and are much easier to read than a black sharpie. The pigment is titanium dioxide.
I also use them to mark blades on the tang while working on them to know what steel they are or who the blade is for.
I discovered that the pigment survives HT quite well.
Whether you do your own HT or you send blades off for HT, all your notes on the tang will still be there after hardening. Sometimes I draw the proposed plunge line and bevel line on the blank blade, and it is there after HT to aid in grinding.
 
The white paint turns black during heat treating, so it works best for ground steel though it is usually readable on scale as well.
 
Stuart Davenport Knives said:
MKknife, thanks for the tips on using it. I'm still juggling ordering a jar.

And just to clarify about the price saving, as minimal as it may be, if there is a "paint" that works just as consistently well for protection against decarb, I am in. I use ATP-641 for carbon steel, and I absolutely love the stuff. If something exactly like that will work just as well for SS, I think a lot of people will toss the foil.

Bladegrinder, I tried the talcum powder once, and I got the opposite problem. The packet ballooned up in the oven. So much so that it sort of wedged between the little ceramic posts that hold the knife. Another pain when you're trying to get to plates quickly! I may try the talcum again and see what's what. But I guess that my folding is done very very well, because maybe 80% of the time I'm fighting the foil welding to the knife. Tried the little piece of paper inside as well, didn't seem to help.

I've tried cleaning the knife prior, with a thorough degreasing and soap bath. I've tried a light coat of oil, which seems to make the balloon effect worse, and the talcum, which ballooned on me as well. I seem to get the best results if I just don't do anything to the knife after profiling, drilling, etc. Putting it in the foil just as it is seems to give me the most consistent results, but with a lot of welded packets.
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As far as the ballooning of the pouch, It's because baby powder is now cornstarch and not talc powder. You can find talc powder online not for human consumption but after the Johnson and Johnson lawsuit you won't find it in regular stores now.
Did you ever order a can and see how it works?
 
A roll of stainless foil from Jantz 12” x 25’ is enough for me to do about 50 blades. Maybe more depending on the size of the knife. It fits most knives I make and it’s the cheapest supplier I’ve found at around $100, That would put my cost at $2 a packet. I run most of my heat treats above the 2000 degree limit of any coating I’ve seen. So while I would love to try a paint on option it’s just not practical for me. I can also probably make packets faster than coatings can dry.
 
I revisted the baby powder and it actually worked for keeping the blade from welding to the SS foil. The bottle did say talcum powder, something my wife had in her make up stash. I coat the blades with WD40 then wipe it off, then apply the talcum powder and sort of rub it evenly, the thin oil seems to make it stick better instead of just falling off into the pouch. I still get some ballooning ocasionally but I can deal with it.

ATP-641 is rated up to 2350°F if memory serves, but it needs to be put on thick I am guessing. A few tries and I didn't care for it for stainless steel temps. However, as far as how fast it dries, with my wife's hair dryer it takes about a minute, and I can't make foil pouches near that fast, plus ATP-641 doesn't try to cut you every time you touch it. I'm sticking with the SS foil for now, and ATP-641 for carbon steels. Thanks all of you for the insights.
 
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