Constructive Criticism of Pakistani Knives

+1 to what gadget geek said, I like if an individual maker stands behind his work, good materials and clear information about materials and blade steel. The makers who have good quality knives will increase their presence and reputation. The ones who just make a pretty looking piece for quick profit are the ones who have stigmatized the "made in Pakistan" label. The first thing I think is low quality steel from a fender or such and the only thing good it do is look neat as a wall hanger or in display case. There are good Pakistsni makes out there, but overcoming the bad reputation will be hard and take time, just like some Chinese companies are slowly doing. Now I am at least willing to scrutinize and educate myself about some Chinese knives, not necessarily buy, but use caution when considering one.
 
Some of the language used to sell Pakistani knives is also a bit out of place in a western market. Terms like "royal", " world's best" and "best quality" get thrown around a lot. It's clear that the quality of the knives don't support the terms used in advertising, but also phrases like that don't go down well with a lot of western customers. We're a cynical lot. We would rather have enough info to satisfy ourselves that the quality is there, then we will judge the rest for ourselves.

Gadgetgeek and some of the others have made a very good point about the maker being identified. I don't think that means that the knives can only be made in small one-person workshops though, as long as we know the work of one person from the next. Have a look at Himalayan Imports in Nepal. They're arguably the best kukhuri company in the world. They use basic materials and processes, they have several staff members, the customers know the work of each craftsman and the have a very loyal following.
 
Then there is the whole warranty issue.

Even if the maker has good faith. Sending it back to have it repaired, is a financial and logistical nightmare.
Shipping both ways, is awash with possibilities for error. With customs, and opportunity for loss or theft.

With companies like Busse, Fiddleback, or Buck. You call, get a return number and ship it back. All three companies have been around for a good long time. They have solid reputations for customer service. It is about customer service, as much as the knife.

And if things go really bad with an American Company. I have other options. Not the least of which, is I can drive there and have a chat.

I have had problems in the past. Not with knives, but with other business. Where I was informed there was no more recourse. But oddly enough, after driving to the company's place of business. Suddenly they seem eager to help me.

This could be associated to my chatting skills. But is more likely related to the veins sticking out of my neck and forehead upon my arrival.

The plain and simple fact of the matter is. I can't drive to Pakistan. Nor would I, if I could. So that in a nutshell is why I don't look to do business there.

Not saying there are no quality knife builders in Pakistan. I am sure there are. But trying to sort through the myriad of scammers in our own county is difficult enough. Much less trying to accomplish that on an international level.

If I was a quality bladesmith from your country. I would focus my efforts on trying to satisfy the millions of people who are seeking quality blades in your own hemisphere. For logistical purposes if nothing else.
 
Yup. Pretty much in agreement with everything else that's been said so far.

1) Create a brand name. This is for accountability purposes. If the product is junk, they know it's YOUR junk. If it's quality, they know it's YOUR quality.

2) Be transparent about the process. Show us what you do and how you do it.

3) Focus on performance. Most Pakistani knives on the Western market are really knife-like objects made to look at and not use. The steel is unknown and won't take or hold an edge worth beans and lots of effort is put into things like damascus, filework, carving, etc. that should be put into just making the handle scales fit right without needing a bucket and a half of weird not-quite-epoxy slathered on them.

4) Perhaps there are local traditional knives and edged tools that might be of interest to the international community? Seems everything coming out of Pakistan currently is in mimicry of Western designs when surely the people of Pakistan itself have needed to cut things long before they ever decided to start selling cutting tools out of country. Traditional tools will generally get more of a pass in the fit/finish department as well, such as the Thai tools from Aranyik, Bidor parangs of Malaysia, various machete manufacturers of Central and South America...and so this may be an area worth some examination.
 
If something comes from Pakistan then everything from a particular maker would have to be proven until a history of quality has been established.

For each knife:
Buy known steel. Prove it.
Use known heat treatments. Describe it.
List rockwell hardness. Prove it.
Show actual pictures of the individual knife for sale
Show testing of each knife
Don't make things too good to be true
A video of the shop. It doesn't need to be impressive. It just needs to be genuine.
Stop with the constant use of damascus. I don't think anyone who knows anything about knives would or could trust a damascus knife from Pakistan.
Above all, have thick skin because until there's a history of quality people will, and should, pick you apart.

If you watch what happened with some Chinese makers they were battered and abused until there were enough people saying that these certain companies reliably produced quality items. They overcame the stigma associated with knives from China. You can too.

Start passarounds.
Send knives for testing to people who will beat the crap out of the knives yet keeping the design if the knife in mind.

Find a way to get your knives for sale with reputable dealers in the US who can act as an intermediary if there are issues with the knife.

Back the knife with above average warranties.

Show how long you've been making knives and whether you stand above anyone else and why people should believe you.

Being from Pakistan you have a huge stigma to overcome. That is something you have to deal with due to so many of your countrymen producing crap for so long. I don't think you could do anything overnight. Maybe after a year or two of earning trust then you as an individual would be able to be taken at face value. Who knows.
 
rafeey said:
?..I'd like to invite you share your honest opinions and suggestions about these knives so that i can help them make better knives.
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Image and integrity issues plague struggling businesses.
It takes years to build up a noteworthy brand reputation.
Jump start by working with a reputable globally recognised cutlery brand.
Or register a cutlery firm in a said country's knife centre where it is intended to be sold.
For instance, as a registered legitimate cutlery business in Sheffield, UK.
There must be some shelf companies related to the trade.
Know your competitors.
Study trends, adopt changes
Relegate has beens to the past.
If need be, hire real experts
To run or advice
in their respective areas of specialisation.
Never be complacent
And accept that what we may think is best,
May not actually even meet the most basic criteria or norm.
Never underestimate the customer.
Real quality always shows
And never evades the knowledgeable with discerning eyes.
 
The lack of a maker's mark, and the lack of stated materials, kind of says it all about the attitude behind these knives... I would concede the materials part could be hard to figure out in a country like Pakistan, but the lack of a maker's mark has no excuse. Unless putting a name on anything over there is a risk of its own...

Gaston
 
There are too many unknowns that there is no real way to verify.

It then becomes a "leap of faith" until you can build up that trust.

With all the knives available to us from makers/companies that can answer all of our questions and there has been trust built up to believe that they are being 100% honest, it's hard to find a reason to "make that leap of faith"

There is also a lot of "shady" stuff all over the internet that has not helped the situation. It's really tough starting from the bottom, but even harder when many of us are already very skeptical.
 
Thanks mate. I am am electrical engineer by profession and an avid camper when not at work and like to educate craftsmen . I get to interact with people of diverse cultures during my job. May be that's why I got good at English. Also, thanks for the suggestion :)
 
rafeey said:
Thanks mate. I am am electrical engineer by profession and an avid camper when not at work and like to educate craftsmen . I get to interact with people of diverse cultures during my job. May be that's why I got good at English. Also, thanks for the suggestion :)
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Its nice to see that you checked back. All of the suggestions have been spot on. If you could organize a few of the talented makers together, and produce a brand, that people could identify and build the reputation of that brand. I think people would really like a knife that is reflective of the area, in a known steel of a known quality. Not a copy of American knives without known quality. Good luck.

There is a sub forum here, "Knife passaround" where manufacturers send a knife to volunteers to test out and review. Then they send it back. You could get a lot of helpful suggestions if you did that. I believe you need a knife makers or manufacturer membership to do that.
 
shinyedges said:
Agreed with those above, overcoming the stigma won't be easy but is plausible if someone does what Chris Larkin recommends.


Personally, if I can't trust what materials are used then it is a deal breaker for me. Consistency consistency consistency.


Fixing Pakistan's reputation on a whole will likely take many years of transparency and consistent quality. An individual maker could build their own reputation faster by doing all the things mentioned.
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Point Noted mate :thumbup:
 
Thanks a lot for the suggestions fellas especially GIRLYmann , bodog, LostViking, and Chris Larrikin for the mini step-by-step kinda guides :) It really mean a lot specially when you are just starting out. So i'll start by finding some passionate craftsmen and help them improve their knives in the light of above mentioned suggestions. I'll keep you guys posted with the progress and some more suggestions. Hopefully i'll be able to develop some good knives for the passaround. Till then cheers and happy knifin :) :thumbup:
 
I'd ask that, in addition to what the others have said, the amount of filework be reduced.
 
Hi, first off I want to say I am not a knife maker or craftsman, just a guy who respects good knives. One reason I have not paid much attention to knives made in Pakistan is that most of what I have seen are fantasy knives that have no reason to exist that i can see, or swords. how ever some of the best scissors come from there. I agree with the others but have one thing to add. If you want to return the knife for repair or refund how do you do that it is against the law for an individual to ship a knife internationally so how can warrentys be used if you can't send the knife back
 
kokoek9 said:
If you want to return the knife for repair or refund how do you do that it is against the law for an individual to ship a knife internationally so how can warrentys be used if you can't send the knife back
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It's not against the law for individuals to ship knives internationally.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
It's not against the law for individuals to ship knives internationally.
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Well that would depend on that particulars of the countries involved...

There are import restrictions on some knives in some countries. Export restrictions not so much, to my knowledge.
 
I wanted to sell a knife to a collector in Europe can't remember the country and was told at my PO that it was illegal to ship knife of any kind out of the country
 
kokoek9 said:
I wanted to sell a knife to a collector in Europe can't remember the country and was told at my PO that it was illegal to ship knife of any kind out of the country
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The people at your post office were wrong. That's not the first time I have heard this one though. It just requires more paperwork
 
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