Contact wheels

Fiddleback

Fiddleback

Knifemaker
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OK. The KMG arrived yesterday. I wanna mod it already. That rotary platten is just out of range right now. So now I've questions on contact wheels. What is the difference (functionally) between serrated and smooth wheels.

AND, is there any other place to get them that is cheaper???
 
Serrated runs cooler and grinds more aggressively. It's also quite a bit moer 'rough' running...
I will only use smooth from here on in, as I had tons of problems running a serrated wheel and trying to hollow grind freehand, and when I switched to smooth it was as if I'd been doing it my whole life. I pretty much use my 12" wheel exclusively now, but I also have an 8" that was serrated that I just had recovered with a smoother, softer contact material.
 
I use a Wilton Square wheel and have always used serrated wheels without a problem , but Matt has me curious on what he says about the smooth wheel ,
I have never used one.
 
heatride said:
I use a Wilton Square wheel and have always used serrated wheels without a problem , but Matt has me curious on what he says about the smooth wheel ,
I have never used one.
Click to expand...


I have a square wheel also, and with the 90 durometer serrated 8" wheel that came with it I NEVER did a successful freehand hollow grind. Without changing anything about my technique at all, I switched to a 12" smooth wheel at 70 durometer and the moment steel touched belt it was as if I was reborn! Lots of other guys have said that they have no problem with either... my guess is that they're more talented than I am!
 
I can't say that I'm terribly excited with serrated wheels. The idea with the serrations is to reduce the suface area (contact) which effectively forces the grit deeper into the work piece. The ridges aid in this cutting action as you can feel each groove gouge out a slice of material when grinding. This produces a more aggressive cutting action. As the grits get dull, the cutting force on an individual grain increases until it becomes so high that the grain fractures, exposing a new sharp edge.

So, serrated wheels cut more aggressively and can provide longer belt life due to the increase regenerative process of fracturing dull grains.

In reality, I don't see it for knifemaking. For one thing, we run the belts very slow compared to other industries and removing material quickly is just not a knifemaker's issue. The serrated wheels are very sensitive to excessive wear on the edges of the wheel and are prone to snagging. Consequently, you'll see serrated wheels with large radiused corners from wear and abuse.

Smooth wheels provide a better surface, where serrated wheels can generate a scalloped looking finish especially with soft j-weight belts.

Modern X-weight belts are so tough and stiff, that they really don't allow the serrations to work effectively..and these are the belts used for heavy grinding. We lose the serrated benifits when using a premium x-weight belt. On the other hand, when we use a J-weight, we are probably finish grinding and want the best surface finish, so a serrated wheel is un-welcome for this application.

I'm contemplating the validity of serrated wheels and have thought about disconinuing them for a couple of years now. As time goes on, my decision seem clearer...that is, serrated wheels have no place in a knifemaker's arsenal of tools.

Currently I still keep them in stock...but that will probably change in the future.
 
Thanks for the reply Matt and wonder if its the 70 durometer because it has more cushion . Also wonder if it could be the wheel size change from 8" to 12" . As far as talent I have said for years its more about the equipment and
understanding how to use it ,and correct knowledge of how to make a knife . Some may disagree .
 
I found the serrated wheel that came with the Wilton to be too agressive, while smooth ones seem slow on the grind.

I came up with a sollution early in the game with the serrated wheel. I took a roll of 2 inch wide duct tape and wrapped several layers on the wheel. This made for a dramatic improvement in my grind. Better control, yet I still have the nice bite that the serrated wheel offers. I have not had to change the tape as it becomes part of the wheel with time and use.
 
I have used serrated on my Square Wheel I don't personally like it for hollow grinding, and marginally liked it for "hogging" outlines of blades and springs.... Replaced it with smooth 10" wheel.
Also had serrated 2" wheel on BMIII horizontal grinder....didn't like it either and replaced it with smooth wheel. Have never used serrated on Burr King, and don't intend to do so.
Just don't care for serrated wheels......I am sure some folks do like them, I am not just one of those folks....
 
Just got off the phone with Rob and as fate would have it I shipped a 10 " wheel to bader to be resurfaced friday. Rob gave me some good information
on this and I called bader and told them to go back with smooth. I think his post clears up the serrated verses smooth wheel debate very well. Thanks Rob


Glenn Dykes
Louisiana
 
Thanks guys. Smooth it is. No hurry.

Um. Nowhere to buy the wheels cheaper though....????
 
Hi Andy, I'm sure you could track down cheaper, but contact wheels aren't cheap. I think if you get one from Rob, it'll be top of the line without worrying about compatability or quality.
Good luck, Craig
 
Is it bad to grind on the unclad aluminum wheels?
 
Fiddleback

I've been thinking about getting a kmg chassis and fabing up my own attatchments so I've been looking around for a more economical wheel myself.

There was a link posted somewhere around here before, but sunray makes some wheels that look like they'd work. You can specify the rubber hardness you want and bearing id. They have a 8x2 wheel listed for somewhere around 70. I emailed him the other day about a 10" (with 9" Al core) and he quoted me around 140.
No idea about quality or compatability though. If anyone here has tried them, I'd appreciate your thoughts on them.

http://www. sunray-inc .com

ryan
 
Check this out. This is a prototype wheel that I played around with about 5 years ago. It's a "hybrid".....a smooth wheel crossed with a serrated wheel.

The edges are solid for durability...but the center is serrated for aggressive cutting. The results are just as you would imaging, if you grind in the cnter, it feels like a serrated wheel...and on the edges it is smooth. I loaned it out to several knifemakers for an evaluation. We all agreed that it wasn't anything to get excited about.

But, non the less...it was a cool project....just some basic R&D here at Beaumont Metal Works.

hybrid-CW1.jpg


hybrid-CW2.jpg


I think it "Looks" cool...and I use it daily as my shop wheel becuase I'm a cheap basitd and can't afford a normal wheel.
 
rfrink said:
Check this out. This is a prototype wheel that I played around with about 5 years ago. It's a "hybrid".....a smooth wheel crossed with a serrated wheel.

The edges are solid for durability...but the center is serrated for aggressive cutting. The results are just as you would imaging, if you grind in the cnter, it feels like a serrated wheel...and on the edges it is smooth. I loaned it out to several knifemakers for an evaluation. We all agreed that it wasn't anything to get excited about.

But, non the less...it was a cool project....just some basic R&D here at Beaumont Metal Works.

hybrid-CW1.jpg


hybrid-CW2.jpg


I think it "Looks" cool...and I use it daily as my shop wheel becuase I'm a cheap basitd and can't afford a normal wheel.
Click to expand...

Rob I cant believe you cant afford a normal wheel :D

Hey I have a project you may be able to help with. I bought a 3" wide, domed 14" dia. idler wheel and it needs a stub shaft and bearings installed. Right now it has a keyed bore of about 1 3/8". Its a great find but whats the best way to make it a useful idler?

I hope Im not hijacking anything here
 
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