Contemplating hand surgery

Raymond,

Call me tomorrow if you have a chance. I think you have my number but you can e-mail me from my web page lapinelarts.com

I can advise you once I know a little more.

Dean Lapinel
 
Ray Good luck with whatever you choose to do. Its very scary either way.

When I was 16 I crushed my wrist. Totally. They wanted to fuse, I said screw that. It may sound like a bunch of silly hippy stuff but I take the glucosamine condroiten or what ever it is. The dam joint supliment stuff and so far so good almost 15 years of much more motion than they told me I would have. Of course I was 16 when it happened. They say I will have to get it fused eventually but I am fine so far. There are bad days but not to many. Oh ya its my right wrist and I am right handed.

I do know other older folks :) who take the joint supliment for normal arthritis and say it works for them to.

Welll good luck!
 
Perhaps I can add a little perspective here. I respect all of your opinions, and the knowledge that the knifemakers here impart to everyone is fantastic. I've been to Ashokan and met several of you and you have been of great help to me.

Having said that, I am an orthopedic surgeon by trade. I think if I were to tell y'all how to make Damascus based on my total lack of experience you would not be getting the best information:D

First, about the xrays : with all due respect, when proper Xrays are taken, you do NOT mistake bone on bone just because of the angle.

Ray, from your description you have Basal joint arthritis ( carpo-metacarpal joint of the thumb) . For what you do, a limited fusion is MUCH more durable than a silicone arthroplasty, and is recommended for those who do heavy work. Having said that, this type of surgery is elective - ie not an emergency.

Finally, surgeons DO NOT only recommend surgery. Again, with all due respect that is simply not true. There are jerk surgeons just like there are jerk cops, teachers, or jerks of any other profession. Orthopedic surgeons typically operate on less than 10% of their patients.

Having said that, it is NEVER the wrong thing to get a second opinion, and for the type of surgery recommended here I would get one from a second hand surgeon (usually orthopedists, but sometimes plastic surgeons)

I know several knifemakers who've had hand surgery, and whom I've given advice to. I will of course not name them, but if one of them happens to see this thread he may comment as well. There are plenty of hand problems that cause significant disability and pain, and which are properly and effectively treated by surgery, allowing the patient to return to the activities that previously caused the pain.

I am happy to answer question from anyone via email or PM if you wish

Bill
 
Also an MD here and I'd like to quote a critical point in Bill's excellent post.

"Having said that, it is NEVER the wrong thing to get a second opinion, and for the type of surgery recommended here I would get one from a second hand surgeon (usually orthopedists, but sometimes plastic surgeons)"


Exactly!
 
I am completely in agreement about giving it a few months of anything and everything- there are several gentle stretching and strengthening regimens from martial arts like aidkio and from various hatha yogas that could help. (not cure, but help)

I second the second opinion :D

But here's the thing--- if surgery becomes necessary, you will have to live without your hammer hand for those 4 months. That sucks. But even with more limited mobility, without the pain, you'll probably be able to do more in the end.

There's this dude in philadelphia, bike messenger. Been riding for YEARS. he's wicked fast and completely in control of the road.


He also has one leg.
 
I'm not a doc but I am a nurse and I'll second billf and deloid and say that any really good doc will be just fine with you getting a second opinion. If he objects to your getting a second opinion then it's probably time to get a new doc.
 
Hi Ray

( by the way... good advice from the doc's )

just another option here...

-i know you hand forge very very nicely... it is art ... and a source of pride...how nicely you make a blade... but if the pounding is what is generating most of the pain... then i'd move to reduce this...

I'd suggest getting a small powerhammer... with the proper dies, you can do a very good job at forging close to finish... maybe not as nice as you used to do... but then the grinder will take care of the rest...


i know a couple blacksmith in their late 70's and they keep working ... but all have a decent powerhammer... .. so it does help...

besides... at least then the powerhammer could take the bull work out of forging... and you could do the finish work with a much lighter hammer..


just a thought

G;)
 
Ray , my brother-in-law is a doctor and the first thing he told me is to get at least 3 opionions . If a doctor does not trust all doctors , what can I say . Also ,Portland scares me . I know 2 people here in town who recently got serious infections from surgery in Portland . Take care and be careful .
 
Good luck Ray. It certainly sounds scary. In line with Jack, I'd definitely get multiple opinions and check the record of the hospital and doctor as much as possible.
 
Ray,

Good luck and best wishes on this problem. I'd add my approval of the idea of forging to shape with a power-hammer. I have serious problems with both wrists from a life-time of hammering, and have switched to my 25 lb'er for 90% of my forging, saving loads of pain, and even improving some forging details.

Good luck,

John
 
deloid said:
Also an MD here and I'd like to quote a critical point in Bill's excellent post.

"Having said that, it is NEVER the wrong thing to get a second opinion, and for the type of surgery recommended here I would get one from a second hand surgeon (usually orthopedists, but sometimes plastic surgeons)"


Exactly!
Click to expand...

maybe a,,,, second hand, surgeon will be less money too ,,
sorry deloid I had to,,, :)

I wish you all the luck Ray.. My Neriloagist says I have wear and tear arthritis in my hands, they don't swell they just hurt with little use,, plus capl in my arms :(
and advanced degenerative in my Back ,,I feel for you Ray.. jonts suck when they hurt.. :( I vote 2nd opinon at the least.. :thumbup:
 
I'm going to hold off on the surgery as long as I can. I think once it warms up a few degrees everything will feel better. Thanks again for the advise and concern!
 
billf said:
Perhaps I can add a little perspective here. I respect all of your opinions, and the knowledge that the knifemakers here impart to everyone is fantastic. I've been to Ashokan and met several of you and you have been of great help to me.

Having said that, I am an orthopedic surgeon by trade. I think if I were to tell y'all how to make Damascus based on my total lack of experience you would not be getting the best information:D

First, about the xrays : with all due respect, when proper Xrays are taken, you do NOT mistake bone on bone just because of the angle.

Ray, from your description you have Basal joint arthritis ( carpo-metacarpal joint of the thumb) . For what you do, a limited fusion is MUCH more durable than a silicone arthroplasty, and is recommended for those who do heavy work. Having said that, this type of surgery is elective - ie not an emergency.

Finally, surgeons DO NOT only recommend surgery. Again, with all due respect that is simply not true. There are jerk surgeons just like there are jerk cops, teachers, or jerks of any other profession. Orthopedic surgeons typically operate on less than 10% of their patients.

Having said that, it is NEVER the wrong thing to get a second opinion, and for the type of surgery recommended here I would get one from a second hand surgeon (usually orthopedists, but sometimes plastic surgeons)

I know several knifemakers who've had hand surgery, and whom I've given advice to. I will of course not name them, but if one of them happens to see this thread he may comment as well. There are plenty of hand problems that cause significant disability and pain, and which are properly and effectively treated by surgery, allowing the patient to return to the activities that previously caused the pain.

I am happy to answer question from anyone via email or PM if you wish

Bill
Click to expand...

Listen to Bill.

A few years ago, I was in an accident and fell off the back of a truck on the way back from the hunting lease. I fractured my right wrist in three places, and my left in two when I went to the pavement. Think of landing like you were doing a pushup. All of my 275 lbs landed on my hands/wrists.

The first doctor ortho doctor I saw want to drill and pin some of the fractures - the most painful ones. Another wanted to drill out the carpal tunnel along the area of the fracture so that when the bones healed, there would be less chance of me developing CTS.

I was almost in tears. I do fine carpentry and fine finishing along with my remodeling company. I was crushed. I was told by both that my wrists would never heal right, that I would need to find another occupation, and that I would need corrective surgery as soon as possible.

Luckily for me, I do work for one of the most prominent doctors in the city on a fairly regular basis. I called him, and he got me into see the orthopedic man that sees our San Antonio Spurs. He had a different story.

How much of a risk was I willing to take on my wrists? How hard would I work to restore them? How determined was I to get the feeling back in my hands and regain the use of them?

We went through a series of casts, some nasty physical therapy, and lots of personal therapy on my part doing the exercises he gave me on a printed sheet. It was a long, grueling process that took about a year, but it worked. No surgery, and my hands are probably at about 95% of what they were. I have a little problem in certain situations, but I am not complaining. I just finished up my last full kitchen remodel doing all the things I have done for years.

Ask a lot of questions. Go see other doctors. All the information you have now may actually be spot on, and all the doctors are correct. But on the other hand, maybe not.

When I asked the orthopedic surgeon that saved my career and my company why all three other doctors insisted on the surgery instead of braces and therapy, he told me "it's real simple. Most people just won't work hard enough to get well. Surgery is the easy thing to do for most people."

In the end, I am not sure who was more happy with my success... me or him. Great guy.

Robert
 
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