contemplating making a knife

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reiko1078

Joined
Sep 1, 2011
Messages
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So this all started with me researching how to put some handle material on a cheap cord wrapped blade I bought at a flea market. During my internet searching I found this sight and started Considering not only making a handle for the knife I have, but also making a knife or two of my own

So here are my questions.
I'd like to hand file a blade from bar stock but I need to know what kind of steel to purchase. I have read that 1044 and 1040 are good steels for a beginner but when I look on knife supply websites I see a3 steel and stainless? Not sure what I really should get. ?

I need to get some files. What kind and roughness should I purchase?
Sand paper: sand papers from 120 grit to 1000 whats a good brand that won't break the bank?

Heat treating. I've read that its possible to use a kettle grill full of charcoal to heat the steel to critical. Is it possible to do it with a grill. I'm not looking to create a masterpiece on my first atempt and I know everyone here creates beautiful work.
Just looking for.some advice to point me in the right direction thank you
 
The Count will add a reply shortly with lots of info... read it all.... twice lol.

1080/1084 is the steel to start with.(also in the stickies at the top)...

The stickies at the top have a step by step guide on making a knife...including what files etc to use...

Welcome to the site!
 
Welcome

Here is that list that was mentioned


I've put this together to answer most of a new maker’s questions. I'm sure it will help you too.

The Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V18

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, you may have a helpful neighbour, or local Hammerin; but that depends on where you are. We have members worldwide.
Please fill out your profile with your location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment, hobbies.

Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E. Apelt

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-PDF

http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos

BladeForums - E-books or Google books


I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:

Think thin. A paring knife slices, an axe splits.
Forget swords, Saw-tooth spines, guthooks, crazy grinds and folders for your first knife.

Start with a drawing.
Show it to us, we love to see and comment on photos.
Then make a cardboard cutout template & draw in handles, pins and such
Then make it in wood, paint sticks are free & close to the right size.
Play with that and see if it “feels right”. If it feels right it usually “looks right“

See the Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings, the Loveless book & Bob Engnath Patterns. Google books thread

Bob Engnath Patterns compiled into a PDF


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF
Right Click and save link as.
It’s being reprinted now; you can get it for $20 ish

The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

Forget the Goop Quench.
Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type; even grocery store canola oil works much better.

Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.

Forget about Lawnmower blades and start with a new known steel type.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.

Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days.

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

Basic Bladesmithing
"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"

The best video on leather sheath making for beginners that I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with machine stitchers..)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles too-The account index has disappeared, but search for LOTS of info. Use the keywords “LurkerLurker torrent” “knifemakerC torrent” and others
Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting…
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.

If you send out for heat treating, you can use
Oil quenched O1, A2,
Or air quenched CM154, ATS34, CPM154, 440C, plus many others.

If you want to heat treat yourself with minimal equipment, find some Eutectoid steel.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking, Cheapest & made for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

1095 is a good carbon steel, but a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 needs very precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Like Parks 50 or Houghton K Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel


You can find a list of suppliers here

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

Air Hardening Stainless Steel Only
Buck Pau Bos -Be sure to check the Shipping and Price tabs.
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos#
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services

Oil Hardening Carbon Steels and Air Hardening Stainless Steel
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)


Grinder / Tools

In my opinion, variable speed and a small wheel attachment are essential .
You can almost always improve tracking with more belt tension. It needs to be way tighter than youfirst think.

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Photo of a nice bevel filing jig

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder

Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm

Mapp arm – Grinder Toolrest


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

What Belts to buy?
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy-p-1393.html


Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and put on safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
The minimum I would consider are the 3M 7500 and North 7700 silicone half masks with a P100 Filter.
Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788837
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=726309



Searching
Search works for ALL users, even unpaid users.
Try it, I’ll bet you’re not the first to ask the question here

This is a special Google page that searches BF only.
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644%3Aqfobr3dlcra

V18 Edited links August 25, 2011.
 
Awesome! Thank you for the links. I shall read all I can and report back with a more formulated plan
 
I have made some sketches and decided on two designs. I'm even making them out of wood for fun until I order steel. Id like to post some pictures and I'm wondering if the basic membership is all I need and how many pics will I be able to put up? Thanks
 
reiko1078

I agree strongly with you that you should make a couple of knives. Great idea! You're a smart man!

Definitely get some 1080/1084 steel to begin with.

If I could only have one file it would be the biggest one with the most aggressive surface. Most everything else can be done with sandpaper. But IF you could have several files then I'd want a large single cut bastard file (for draw filing), a half round, and a round file.

As far as sheets of sandpaper go I use whatever is available at my local hardware store. The paper intended for wet sanding is probably better grade. IMHO, after filing the bevel of your blade you should go at it with 120 or 180 grit sandpaper. I've used cheaper paper-backed (dry sanding) paper for this. I use 400 or 600 grit before hardening, and for final finishing after tempering you can go as high as you want. I've recently begun to use 1000 grit and the finished blades are starting to look potentially shiny.

I've made a forge from a coffee can and hot water heater fan, burning homemade charcoal. It can get blades hot enough to ruin them. It leaves little bumps/blisters on the surface of the steel. They can be sanded off or left on to give "character" to your blade.

For a first knife, especially made with files, I strongly suggest you consider doing a smaller rather than larger knife with a blade less than 4 inches (that's what fits in a coffee can forge) and not more than 1 inch wide top-to-bottom, 1/8" or 3/16" thick.

I said you were a smart man and making a knife doesn't have to be rocket science, but you will probably make some mistakes. Hey! Welcome to the human race. As long as you learn from them and continue having fun you're doing fine.

Lets see those drawings you made.

- Paul Meske
 
The second pic is the sketches I drew after cutting them out then I traced them onto paint stirrers and cut and carved them to shaped with the bevels how I want them. The second one is not quite done yet of course. Both knives are.under 6 inches each.with blades.being about 3.inches. im not sure of the term for the style of knives so maybe someone could chime in. And of course advice is welcome

I also picked up a BIG A$$ file from a guy who sells old tools at my local flea market for 3$ its round on one side and flat on the other I think.it will do.the job

I think I am going to try just my charcoal grill for my first HT. But I am very interested in making a small metal can forge for a little ways down the road. I need to source some of the insulative mat. Anyone know where I can get some?

Thanks for looking
 

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I don't like the top knife, but the Wharncliff looks good. The handle on it seems a bit long, though.

Make sure the file you got is a metal file, not a big woodworkers rasp.
 
I like both knives but I have a question about the top one. On the bottom, between where the handle material starts and the cutting edge ends, I see a notch. It doesn't seem to have a purpose except to hold blood and dirt. It could be enlarged into the handle material to make a finger notch for your index finger. I think I would angle the blade down just a little from the handle. It may require redrawing the cutting edge to maintain the flowing lines.

The Wharncliff handle could easily be used with a number of other blade styles.

When you use your grill to heat treat, you'll need to force air into the charcoal to get it hot enough.

- Paul Meske
 
Since you are in Savannah, you are not too far from Statesboro. You might want to contact Harry and Charlie Matthews at TwinBlades. Super-duper nice guys and class-act knife makers.

They can offer you more information in an hour than most folks can learn in a lifetime.

Robert
 
"Contemplating making a knife"...

That makes two of us. Keep things simple and have fun with it. The members here are a very helpful group with lots of knowledge.
 
Lonepine: I gree about the notch. My paint stick was only about 7/8 inch wide I ordered a piece of 1084 1'1/4x 48 3/16 steel from the steel baron today. The extra width will allow me to drop the edge of the blade a bit I'm planning on rigging some stove pipe and a hair drier to the hole in the bottom of my webber.
 
The guy I bought the file from confirmed it was for metal.

Thanks for the input its good to get an outside perspective.
 
reiko1078
Take a look at THIS THREAD. There are some pictures at the bottom (reply #13) showing the coffee can forge I mentioned earlier.

- Paul Meske
 
Lonepine that is sweet. And way more efficient to as it would use way less charcoal. I've also considered making a gas fired can forge. Would you know where I could get refractory mating and bricks?
 
bladsmth said:
I don't like the top knife, but the Wharncliff looks good. The handle on it seems a bit long, though.

Make sure the file you got is a metal file, not a big woodworkers rasp.
Click to expand...

I'm with Stacy. I can see where you're trying to go with the top design, but the flow of the knife is off a bit. With a little work it could be a great knife! Now, as far as the bottom knife goes.......big thumbs up!!:thumbup: Spend some time around here and you will find that I am an unabashed Wharnie fanatic:D I love that bottom design. Like Stacy, I might shorten the handle a tad, but then again I might not. Nice to have a good length of handle for a solid grip on the knife. Who knows? You don't know until you make it and hold it so I say go for it. Great design, and welcome to knife making.

Have fun!
 
reiko1078 said:
Would you know where I could get refractory mating and bricks?
Click to expand...

No I don't, not really. Some of the places that are listed below sell what you are looking for.

reiko1078 said:
Lonepine that is sweet. And way more efficient to as it would use way less charcoal. I've also considered making a gas fired can forge.
Click to expand...

So have I. Charcoal is cheap, but dirty. Here are some websites with directions for small gas forges.

Micro Forge, Bean can forge

Mini Gas Forge

Coffee-can gas forge 2

Five-Gallon Bucket Forge

Quick and Easy Propane Fired Forge

Building Your First Gas Forge

- Paul Meske
 
I just recieved my 1084 barstock from aldo! Time to get out to the garage and cut out some profiles
 
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