Convex Sharpening Set-Up? +A Bonus Rant/Funny Story!

S

Squeezymo

Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
315
I am currently gathering the materials to make the convex edge sharpening system setup with the mouse pad. Today I went to Home Depot and Wal-Mart and got:

-2 thin mousepads
-400 grit, and 600 grit sandpaper
-a 2x6
-2 clamps.
-Leather stropping compound

So here's the fun part:
I go to this place in the mall called "The Knife Shop" because I had exhausted 4 different stores looking for a strip of leather, and 800 grit sandpaper. So I see this guy at the shop whom I talked to way before I came to this site. I didn't want to talk to this guy because he told me this the last time I went there to ask him about a knife:

"If you are looking for a really high-end knife and are willing to drop the bucks, I suggest you try Cold Steel products. I've had one of their knives for a year and still haven't had to sharpen it. They use the highest end steel on their blades, and actually don't even reveal what kind of steel is in there because they don't want other companies to know."

Now, after browising through this site, and other knife merchant's websites I have since learned Cold Steel is definitely not the best knife company out there. In addition, they don't have any mystery steel, and it ranges from AUS8, 420HC, Carbon V, and the San Mai III. But enough of that. I also didn't want this guy because last time I went to look at a knife he tried selling it to me for a ridiculous price. So I go in there today and wanted to ask him where I could get a nice pieve of leather that I could make into a leather strop. He points me in the direction of his 50$ strops, and I'm not going to pay that much for a strop unless I consult BladeForums. So I change the subject and ask where to find 800 grit sandpaper. So he asks what I'll be using it on, and I tell him it's for sharpening a convex edge. So he whips out his CRKT M16 as if it were a million dollar bill and says "like this?" And I'm thinking to myself "I thought CRKT was either chisel, hollow, or flat ground, but not convex. So I say, "uh, I think so..." and I tell him it's for a Fallkniven. And the conversation goes as follows:
"Oh, well what do you need the sandpaper for?"
"For sharpening the convex. Have you heard of the mousepad-sandpaper method?"
"No..."
I proceed to explain it to him.
"Why don't you just use a flat stone for that?"
"Because I heard the mousepad conforms to the edge of the convex."
"Do you draw away from the blade or towards it in this method?"
"Away from the blade"
"No, you never do that." He remarks in a know-it-all attitude. And if I'm wrong, tell me but I was under the impression sharpening a convex invloves drawing away. He proceeds to give me an explanation as to how a knife edge works like a tiny tiny saw, which I already know, but I decide to respect my elders and argue no further. But I do say,
"well, for convex blades I was under the impression that you draw away. That's at least what the websites I hvae consulted for this message have said"
Now he gets an attitude:
"Look, Buddy, I've been sharpening knives for 5 years, and you never draw away from the blade, you develop a burr."
Once again, I remind myself what the great BladeForums has told me about wanting to learn how to develop the burr, but yet I hold my tongue.

So after about 10 minutes of hearing this guy go on and on about why I'm wrong, I decide to just purchase the stropping compound I had been holding on to the whole time. He finishes by telling me he's never heard of the mousepad method, blah blah blah. I decide to trust this site more than a guy that doesn't know what steel he has in his own knife.

In addition, I was confused as to why he showed me his CRKT M16. It seemed like a cheaper knife for a knife store owner, but my question was, if he really had a convex edge on there, then he must have put it on himself. So how has he not heard of the mousepad method if he has put his own convex edges on his crappy knives??? Even if he doesn't use it, I'm sure he's heard of it!!!

Oh well. What I need to know now is something I should ask intelligient people (you guys).

Where do I find a nice strip of leather I can use for a strop? Is it 100% necessary to invest in a strop? What grits are good to use to touch up the blade on my Fallkniven S1? Should I go higher or lower than 400 and 600?

Thanks guys!!!! I stood up for you!
 
First off, squesszymo, great stroy. And you're right - this guy knows nothing. He obviously will never care enough to know anything - that much won't change. And he'll never admit he's wrong. So you handled it well.

I like to go up to 1500 grit sandpaper, maybe 2000 (but I have a hard time finding it). 800 gives the edge a good bite, but 800 and 1000 grit still leave scratches. So the really fine papers clean up the scratches made with the "sharpening grade" grits.

You can strop your edge even on cardboard when it's fully tuned, just do it after each use to maintain the blade.

I'd love to find a strip of leather too. I have used a carpenter's belt with jeweler's rouge with success. You can sharpen your knife AND hold up your pants at the same time. ;)
 
Brian Jones said:
First off, squesszymo, great stroy. And you're right - this guy knows nothing. He obviously will never care enough to know anything - that much won't change. And he'll never admit he's wrong. So you handled it well.

I like to go up to 1500 grit sandpaper, maybe 2000 (but I have a hard time finding it). 800 gives the edge a good bite, but 800 and 1000 grit still leave scratches. So the really fine papers clean up the scratches made with the "sharpening grade" grits.

You can strop your edge even on cardboard when it's fully tuned, just do it after each use to maintain the blade.

I'd love to find a strip of leather too. I have used a carpenter's belt with jeweler's rouge with success. You can sharpen your knife AND hold up your pants at the same time. ;)
Click to expand...

See this is the kind of great stuff you hear from people that know what they are talking about, and aren't just trying to sell you things. I told the guy that most people on these forums use sandpaper with grits up to 1600 and 2000 and the guy gave me a look like I told him Canada was the 51st state of the U.S.

Also, is stropping compound completely necessary? He said that it was because if you don't use it, the leather is too hard to use. I bought it anyway not because of what he said, but because of what I've heard people on here say that it's a great thing to have. And I figured I couldn't get it anywhere else.
 
Auto shop for the sandpaper...PEP Boys etc.
Look in the paint and body section.

Texasknifemakersupply.com has leather by the square foot.
Get one and make your self a sheath as well.

Going back to the auto supply store, I've used Mother's Aluminum Mag wheel polish on my strop and I have no complaints...then again I haven't much else to compare it to, besides plain leather. That works too.
Good luck.
And good work on not arguing with the guy in the store.
It aint worth it :)
 
If you cant find leather a piece of paper loaded with compound on top of the mousepad will work.
 
"Why don't you just use a flat stone for that?"
"Because I heard the mousepad conforms to the edge of the convex."
Click to expand...

The mousepad does conform to convex edges. But this begs the question. Why convex in the first place? I find it mostly a matter of personal preference than anything else. It sounds like the two of you were talking past each other.

"Do you draw away from the blade or towards it in this method?"
"Away from the blade"
"No, you never do that." He remarks in a know-it-all attitude. And if I'm wrong, tell me but I was under the impression sharpening a convex invloves drawing away.

He proceeds to give me an explanation as to how a knife edge works like a tiny tiny saw, which I already know, but I decide to respect my elders and argue no further. But I do say,
"well, for convex blades I was under the impression that you draw away. That's at least what the websites I hvae consulted for this message have said"
Now he gets an attitude:
"Look, Buddy, I've been sharpening knives for 5 years, and you never draw away from the blade, you develop a burr."
Once again, I remind myself what the great BladeForums has told me about wanting to learn how to develop the burr, but yet I hold my tongue.
Click to expand...

Well, he's kind of right. Sharpening away from the edge is an easy way to develop a burr, particularly on a stone. Which is what he apparently uses. Less so with fine grit paper on a mousepad, but still very possible.

The utility of forming a burr is a whole different ball of wax. It sounds like he strives to avoid it, as do I. However, plenty of folks argue vehemently in favor of the burr forming step.


In addition, I was confused as to why he showed me his CRKT M16. It seemed like a cheaper knife for a knife store owner, but my question was, if he really had a convex edge on there, then he must have put it on himself. So how has he not heard of the mousepad method if he has put his own convex edges on his crappy knives??? Even if he doesn't use it, I'm sure he's heard of it!!!
Click to expand...

Convex edges are not limited to sandpaper/mousepad or slack belt methods. It's very easy to do it freehand with a stone. In fact, I find it difficult to not convex an edge unless using some kind of jig with a trued stone. Even my Scandi grind knives are more convex over time, just by sharpening freehand flat on a stone.

I generally use 2000 sandpaper on a phone book/paper pad as a strop. Works fine, when I bother to do it.
 
It seems to me that you should not necessarily strive for a burr. To refine an edge after you develop a burr you need to remove the burr.

When you are learning to sharpen the burr serves to let you know that you have removed material from a side. Removing to much material and getting to large of a burr to me means you are shortening blade life.

I try to get as small a burr as I can to just let me know I am removing just enough material to freshen the edge.

I get my leather for my strops from Tandy out of their scrap bin.
 
I can get a burr on a knife in 10 seconds using the mousepad sandpaper technique. Just like stone sharpening, use a rough enough grit. I have from 80 to 2000.
 
I just recently bought the strop bat from JRE industries, (am not affiliated at all) it is a 4 sided piece of wood that has 4 strips of leather on it and it come preloaded with compound, it is great for convex blades.
 
I use 1500 and 2000 for general sharpening and, yes, you "strop" away from the edge. Then I finish with green chromium oxide on leather.

For edge repair or if the convex-ground knife is really dull, I also have 320 and 600, 800 and 1000, then the 1500 and 2000. Each is mounted on a board with 7-8oz leather glued on....under the sandpaper. For example, if you flip the 320, you get the 600, flip the 800 and you get the 1000, flipt the 1500 to reveal 2000.

I try NOT to raise a burr, expecially on the final 2 grades of paper.
 
Guy sounds like a moron. If you really wanna blow him away, tell him you finish your sharpening with a Zeasor Strop.:D:cool:
 
Why not just use an old leather belt? Or go to a discount store or second-hand store and buy a cheap leather belt.

--Mike L.
 
I do use an old Leather Belt, but with Green Rouge. I modify the backing depending on the Grind I am stropping. I would like to have something better but this works for now.

SqueezyMo - I think you showed mature restraint by not laughing in that guys face. You'll meet plenty of folks that fall into the same category - more if you decide to follow one specific genre in Knives - but overall most knife users are good folks. Some are just misinformed and do want to explore and learn more but many (like Brainiac in the knife store) feel they already know everything important and will never expend the Grey matter to even listen to an opposing view.

Good luck in your stropping.
 
Woodcraft stores are a great source for hones, strops, sandpaper etc. You can buy special purpose strop leather there. You can also look for an old leather purse or belt at a Goodwill store.
 
I bought a bag of leather scraps from "Hobby Lobby" (an arts & craft store), made me a few nice strops. Got my 1000 & 2000 grit sand paper from O'Riely's auto shop. (I guees any auto supply store would have it). Convex is the way to go!!!!
 
That's what I did. $5 for the bag of quite a few leather pieces. They made good backing to glue on the boards I use.
 
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