Cool Backpacker Article

[tabeeb762]

The backpacking/ultralight side of things is, in many cases, decades ahead of the hunting/bushcrafting/military side in terms of materials and design. Yes, wool is great, and may be irreplaceable as a long term durable fabric. But holy cow, if I'm out doing strenuous exercise in the cold for days at a time, I sure like polypro and fleece.

And then there are backpacks. 6-8 pound mil-spec tactical packs in the woods? Ugh.

You're saying I should dump my proven comfortable and durable wool, cotton, canvas, and wood in favor of noisy, flimsy, uncomfortable, and expensive plastics? Doesn't sound like too good of an idea to me.

The latest trends aren't always the best. Just look at the 80's.

 

[siguy]

"The Gear: That’s Not a Knife
« This is a knife! A Swedish Mora with a 3 7⁄8-inch fixed blade is Tony Nester’s preferred tool for bushcraft ($20, apathways.com). The reason: A fixed blade with a full tang (meaning the blade runs through the length of the handle) is stronger, so the handle never breaks. He favors carbon steel because you can sharpen it against a smooth river stone using an arcing motion against the rock. It also sparks when you strike the back of the blade with a piece of quartzite, flint, or chert. "

I agree with the earlier comment on tang length. As far as I know, the 510 has the longest tang of all the plastic handled Moras.

I disagree with the part of this quote that says carbon steel equals being able to sharpen the knife on a found rock. I can sharpen a penny on a found rock, but that doesn't mean I should pick it to be a bushcraft knife. Sparking on a rock is a legitimate reason to carry carbon, in a 1 knife scenario (in my own opinion).

You're saying I should dump my proven comfortable and durable wool, cotton, canvas, and wood in favor of noisy, flimsy, uncomfortable, and expensive plastics? Doesn't sound like too good of an idea to me.

The latest trends aren't always the best. Just look at the 80's.

Tabeeb, I hate that I quibble over little details, but I don't believe anywhere in Smersh's post did he suggest that you or anyone else favor synthetics over natural fibers. I believe he explicitly states "I sure like", which I can only take to mean that is what he has found to work well for him.

Personally, I flop back and forth. I know I sure like my EMS down sweater though. Natural insulation, ultralight space age fabric. Stupid light and incredibly warm. If I'm worried about durability, I put on a beater wool jacket over top, or skip the down altogether.

 

[freddeh]

And what do I see? A couple of girls in their early 20s with nothing but hydration packs on, heading in the opposite direction, towards the first lake of the hike. They proceed to ask me how much farther it is to the lake, seeming giddy with excitement.

Where are you hiking?

 

[hollowdweller]

The latest trends aren't always the best. Just look at the 80's.

What are you talking about??

 

[Joezilla]

Personally, I flop back and forth. I know I sure like my EMS down sweater though. Natural insulation, ultralight space age fabric. Stupid light and incredibly warm. If I'm worried about durability, I put on a beater wool jacket over top, or skip the down altogether.

With natural vs synthetics, I flip flop like a puppy on crack. But as far as trendy, check out all the Merino Wool stuff that has come out recently. Now yer talking. Combining space age design, stitching, and fit with the best of natural fibers.

 

[Joezilla]

Speaking of the 80s, the newest issue of backpacker had this really cool section:

Time tested gear:
Notable entries that they liked
Kelty Trekker 3000. They talked about when it first came out in the 80s and how some of them still love it

And the Danner Light/ Light II

 

[tabeeb762]

Tabeeb, I hate that I quibble over little details, but I don't believe anywhere in Smersh's post did he suggest that you or anyone else favor synthetics over natural fibers. I believe he explicitly states "I sure like", which I can only take to mean that is what he has found to work well for him.

Personally, I flop back and forth. I know I sure like my EMS down sweater though. Natural insulation, ultralight space age fabric. Stupid light and incredibly warm. If I'm worried about durability, I put on a beater wool jacket over top, or skip the down altogether.

This part felt like it was directed at someone like me. I'm probably over-reacting but I don't appreciate being called obsolete.

backpacking/ultralight side of things is, in many cases, decades ahead of the hunting/bushcrafting/military side in terms of materials and design.

I'm not against all modern materials. I have a Camelbak BFM made from 1000D Cordura (new ones are 500D) that still looks brand new after four years of use. Its far from lightweight though.

Environment is probably a huge factor aswell. Around here every step is either over sharp rocks or through bushes that want to scratch you to death. No use carrying or wearing something that I have to worry about ripping to shreds every few steps.

Cold isn't much of a problem either. A wool blanket and a tarp is all I need in winter, infact sometimes it gets too warm.
Never used a tent, or sleeping bag in my life so I guess that saves a few pounds.

"The more you carry in your head, the less you carry on your back" is frequently voiced by Bushcrafters. I've always thought it was a good philosophy to go by so I can undestand where ultra-lighters are coming from, but there are limits. I won't take what I don't need, but what I do take has to be the best for me. Ultra-light gear seems to be a handicap as far as my experience goes.

 

[tabeeb762]

And the Danner Light/ Light II

I've wanted to get a pair of Danners since I first heard of them. Problem is not a lot of options in 16XW.

 

[caine]

last camping trip i went on alot of people had packs like that. Been thinking about getting one

 

[Moosez45]

Speaking of the 80s, the newest issue of backpacker had this really cool section:

Time tested gear:
Notable entries that they liked
Kelty Trekker 3000. They talked about when it first came out in the 80s and how some of them still love it

And the Danner Light/ Light II

I've always wanted to get some Danner Lights. I'm hooked on Rocky's now though. I got to get some new footwear soon, so, maybe I can pass up the Rockys and get some Danner's this time around.

Moose

 

[hollowdweller]

I have a Trekker 4300 but I don't use it much anymore because my gear is so much more compact now.

I do like that you can stand them against a tree and the frame keeps the body from getting wet.:thumbup:

 

[caine]

i want this one Kelty Yukon Backpack

 

[smersh]

The backpacking/ultralight side of things is, in many cases, decades ahead of the hunting/bushcrafting/military side in terms of materials and design. Yes, wool is great, and may be irreplaceable as a long term durable fabric. But holy cow, if I'm out doing strenuous exercise in the cold for days at a time, I sure like polypro and fleece.

And then there are backpacks. 6-8 pound mil-spec tactical packs in the woods? Ugh.

You're saying I should dump my proven comfortable and durable wool, cotton, canvas, and wood in favor of noisy, flimsy, uncomfortable, and expensive plastics? Doesn't sound like too good of an idea to me.

The latest trends aren't always the best. Just look at the 80's.

With natural vs synthetics, I flip flop like a puppy on crack. But as far as trendy, check out all the Merino Wool stuff that has come out recently. Now yer talking. Combining space age design, stitching, and fit with the best of natural fibers.

No, really not telling you what you should do, or wear, or prefer. Really. There are a lot of ways to skin a moose.

I've got plenty of wool and leather that I wear outside. Sometimes I wear full grain leather boots, sometimes all synthetic.

Wool is, as I said earlier, durable, comfortable, and tough. I wear it all the time. It's also pretty bullky and heavy if you're moving around a lot (or far). Hillary and Tensing wore it to the top of Everest, which is pretty cool. I'd bet my favorite knife, though, that they'd have traded it in a heartbeat for a modern synthetic/down climbing suit. Imagine what they would have done to get out of those leather boots and into some insulated modern mountaineering boots.

I would agree with Joe that some of the new merino stuff is close to being the best of both worlds. Spensive, but nice. Some of my poly longjohns are 20+ years old -- they've long outlasted the scratchy wool they replaced. Both are great.

Canvas? I like Carharrts for work outdoors close to home, but would never wear them in the woods. Doubly so for a canvas pack, which to me is a eight pounds of ill-fitting misery. My 60-liter Gregory pack weighs less than three pounds, and is more comfortable than any backpack I've ever used.

Cotton? Apart from boxers, that's for home.

Sleeping? For me, there are few things as liberating as carrying an 18 oz. 30-degree down sleeping bag that compresses to the size of a football. An ancient and tested insulation form, coupled with modern materials, and super lightweight. Win.

Your calculation might be different, which is great.

This is all to say that there's no single right solution -- there are lots of good materials, and the smart money is on not being too wedded to being a purist, whether in the name of traditionalism, or technology.

One thing I'll say unequivocally, though. You'll be hard-pressed to convince me that a canvas pack is anything more than a retro fashion statement. You can be pissed at me for that.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

This is my favorite post from the comments section:

A knive is ridiculous as a ten essential to backpackers as you carry your shelter and warmth and unless you need to slice cheese a knive is silly. Having said that, the 'knive' zealotry is so entrenched in otherwise smart people, that I'll bet everyone will disagree with me but I challenge you to tell me what you use a knife for when backpacking. I do believe in a heavy duty scissors tho. Cheers
Posted: Nov 06, 2010 Babettezz

I think that comment is very pertinent.

I used to get into all kinds of arguments with this type of person, until it finally got through my thick skull what the disconnect was: We're talking about different sports!!!

She (assuming "Babettezz" is a girl) has a point. If you're a backpacker, and bring your shelter with you, bring a stove, bring instant food, etc, you really have little actual need for a knife. Although I am at a loss about the scissors. . .

Whereas bushcrafters/primitive campers and such will purposely go out without those things in order to make fires to cook on, make their wool blanket into a suitable shelter, etc -- things that all but require a knife, often an axe/machete/kukri as well.

Once we get past the road block and realize we're out there for different reasons, a lot of the disagreement goes away.

Although they may still think I'm nuts for being happy setting up a camp, and sit around the fire with my dog eating SPAM and eggs, or puttering around to watch the otters play for hours on end, and I have no idea why they'd want to walk on a prepared trail as fast as they can.

One thing I'll say unequivocally, though. You'll be hard-pressed to convince me that a canvas pack is anything more than a retro fashion statement. You can be pissed at me for that.

One thing canvas packs excel at is abrasion/cut resistance. I frequently walk through areas with big, long thorns that will cut you if you look at them wrong. They even tore up my old OD ALICE pack, which is built heavier than most "backpacking" packs, and well known for its durability. Canvas packs don't have any such problem going through those areas. The only synthetic I've seen come close is real 1000D Cordura.

Another place they are superior to backpacking packs is when canoe camping. They lack the frame and suspension systems of the backpacking packs, and are slicker -- i.e. easier to get in and out of the boat without snagging.

They're also not uncomfortable unless you try to carry heavy loads in them.

But that doesn't mean you have to like them, either.

 

[hollowdweller]

I don't know. I do a lot of backpacking and I still find use for a knife a lot.

Backpacking can also involve a lot of bushwhacking too so you are not always on trails there either.

I like both synthetic and natural clothes.

I usually take one cotton shirt backpacking to sleep in.

However on the trail esp when it's hot if I hike in a cotton shirt then that shirt will be soaked with sweat and sometimes it may take the whole weekend to dry out. When I used cotton shirts sometimes I took up to 3 of them in the summer.

Now I usually just take one under armor or similar quick drying shirt and the cotton one to sleep in for several days. When I get to camp I can soak it in the creek, squeeze it out, hang it in a tree and it's usually dry by morning.


In the winter bringing 2 pairs of nylon pants with long johns seems to keep me warm as a pair of jeans and when I used to bring an extra pair of jeans it used up as much space as my entire clothing bag did.

Of course I still wear jeans, cotton shirts etc when I'm car camping or only hiking a short distance (2 or 3 miles)

 

[wildmanh]

I took a backpacking class years ago and a knife was on the list of recommended items to bring. Nice to see it recommended else where.

 

[desmobob]

I've wanted to get a pair of Danners since I first heard of them. Problem is not a lot of options in 16XW.

I feel your pain, bro.

desmobob (15EEEE)

 

[Gadgetaholic]

I don't read the magazine but that's true with most backpackers I've seen. They're focused on the clothes for hiking rather than bushcrafty gear. And actually, that might be a better attitude towards the outdoors. Your clothing is your first line of defense in a survival scenario. Dare I say, you should buy a good set of clothes before buying a good knife.

A bit late for that - we already have good knives!

[sparta]
This is madness!
NO, THIS IS BLADEFORUMS!!!!
[/sparta]

Of course this is another case where it isn't either/or - clearly the right clothing and the right knives and other useful equipment adds up to a much easier time when hiking.

Although I am at a loss about the scissors. . .

I would guess cutting open packets of freeze dried food or something similar? But I can open such packets quite easily with a sharp knife. For ultra light hiking (if that was what I was in to) I could always take my Leatherman Squirt S4 - it doesn't weigh much and has really good scissors + bottle opener, blade, file, tweezers & screwdrivers. This would be a much more useful tool than 'just' a pair of scissors. Although I think that if I just took one cutting tool I'd probably make it my Victorinox Ranger if I didn't mind the extra ~2.5oz over the weight of my squirt. The LM Squirt S4 has better scissors (they really are good) but the Victorinox Ranger has better blades and more useful tools. To be honest I would probably be able to manage just fine with the 1.9oz Squirt S4 as long as I didn't encounter a need for a real knife - then I'd wish I had my BK-7 with me, it can handle the real survival situations.

For normal camping I'd really feel much more comfortable with my BK-9 + Mora Bushcraft Triflex + Victorinox Ranger. I really don't like going into the bush under knifed! Or maybe Machete + BK-7 + Mora + SAK, that'd be a pretty good combo too. If we are talking about car camping then I'd probably have half a dozen knives or more. For that matter I'd have over half a dozen flashlights too (my other hobby).

 

[hollowdweller]

A bit late for that - we already have good knives!

This is madness!

NO, THIS IS BLADEFORUMS!!!!

:thumbup:

 

[Joezilla]

I'll have to get a picture just for this thread.