Cool Old Tomahawks and Axes

Triquetra

Triquetra

Joined
Mar 7, 2002
Messages
759
Went to a local Native American Museum and found these. I was excited and thought you guys might want to take a look.I was surprised at how long the tomahawk handles were and was surprised to see leather between the head and handle presumably to tighten. Maybe to seal for smoking though too.

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Now these are really old.

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One of the ones with leather insert between head and handle.

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Great post, I love the war clubs. Did you happen to get pics of the Real Pipes in the showcase with the pipehawks?

Regards

Robin
 
The handles on those pipe hawks seem skinny, or is it their length that just makes them look skinny? Thanks for the pics, and taking the time to post them.
 
Pipeman said:
Great post, I love the war clubs. Did you happen to get pics of the Real Pipes in the showcase with the pipehawks?

Regards

Robin
Click to expand...

I don't think that I did but I'll see what I have. I'm sure that I'll be back soon and I try to take one.
 
foxx said:
The handles on those pipe hawks seem skinny, or is it their length that just makes them look skinny? Thanks for the pics, and taking the time to post them.
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I meant to say that too. Compared to the handles on the regular tomahawks that I see now the handles on these were very long, a lot thinner, and weren't really tapered top to bottom. I think they were at least 24" long except for the halbred and presentation one. I plan on going back to take closer look and to take better pictures. I had never heard of this place and it's only half and hour away.
 
Historic tomahawks had hafts in many different lengths and this was true with the tomahawks used by both the native peoples and white frontiersmen, who both used tomahawks extensively. Typically one would obtain only the head at the trading post and then make the handle for it.

I've tried to explain this to people on here who thought I was full of it, and think shorter is better. "Better" is what works best for the individual. I'm 6'5" and prefer a haft length of a minimum of 20" long. How long would your tomahawk haft be if this was 1790? It would be however long or short you wanted it to be.
 
I recently saw a picture of one that was Sitting Bull's. Looked like more or a trade axe than tomahawk but it was really long. Said it was because of use on horseback. I've also noticed that a lot of Native American one's for actual use were curved. Seems like a shorter one like I have is better for a compact camp hatchet and throwing or for the modern military ones that would be kind of cumbersome if they were long. I think if I were going to fight with it in the old frontier style I would like it long. Were these types in the pictures even used much or were they pretty much just ceremonial. A lot of the pictures that I've seen of ones they fought with weren't pipe hawks. None of this is based on anything but my opinion or theory though.
 
My Grandmother...one of the so-called "full-blooded" Cherokee, who broke from the band of Cherokee walking the trail of tears. Grannys' story, not mine...Granny claimed the group maintained a low-profile for a hundred or so years, she was born in the 1890's, then began to show themselves....for example....My earliest memories of Granny are from Flemming, Ga...turns out the U.S. Military leased a great deal of Fort Stewart from her...My next were when in the early 1960s she bought a great deal of downtown Savannah, Ga...and...Hilton Head Island, S.C., where I spent most summers and half of my winters.

Grannys' favorite saying was "100% Cherokee Baby"...

Whole Point of this is,,,I remember the walls of her wide hallways were covered in this sort of thing...old hawks, bags, pouches, headgear bows and spears and so on...Granny passed in the late 70s, I have no idea where these wonderful pieces ended up...
The long curved handles meant that the owner had a special medicine.....of course, the longer the handle, the longer the reach...special medicine?...

I remember playing with some of these things as a child, and now constantly kick my own butt for not keeping up with them....in the early 80s there were so many bad guys who had to be chased down and stopped, by the time I could turn my attention to Grannys' stuff, I was 40 and they were long gone....Preserve history when you find it, blink your eye and history will be history..

God Bless

Lee
 
Wow, great history and too bad you weren't able to get some of those things, lot's of sentimental value and just plain cool stuff! Have you talked to everyone in the family that might know where it went? It could all be stored in someones attic or maybe even in a museum, so you could at least see it.
 
Here is one I did recently trying to find a semi-exact length of a Missouri Warhawk haft.
It's an 1884 picture that I overlaid a grid on . The average height for the two Euros standing up
would have been 5'7"or 67" so that scales the hawk hafts at 26". Looks like both handles
were handmade out of limbs as neither are straight.
All kinds of factors though, depth perception of camera and I was guessing at floor level,ect.
I did 12 old photos and came up with 20"-27" haft length...

scale hawk.jpg

And speaking of how they were shipped, here's a pic of trade axes found on The Belle, a French ship
that wrecked off the coast of Texas in 1687. 500 heads have been found.

art-axe-barrel belle.jpg
 
church&son said:
Here is one I did recently trying to find a semi-exact length of a Missouri Warhawk haft.
It's an 1884 picture that I overlaid a grid on . The average height for the two Euros standing up
would have been 5'7"or 67" so that scales the hawk hafts at 26". Looks like both handles
were handmade out of limbs as neither are straight.
All kinds of factors though, depth perception of camera and I was guessing at floor level,ect.
I did 12 old photos and came up with 20"-27" haft length...

View attachment 249781

And speaking of how they were shipped, here's a pic of trade axes found on The Belle, a French ship
that wrecked off the coast of Texas in 1687. 500 heads have been found.-

View attachment 249783
Click to expand...

Next time I go back, I'm going to take more notes on size, edge geometry, etc. The ones i saw definitely don't look like limbs. I really want to look closely at the stone ones. Ive always wanted to know how the attachment was made so solid, I know its rawhide but that's all.
 
Thanks for the great post. I am getting used to the longer hafts on hawks. Most of my experience has been with hatchets which generally have shorter hafts. The longer haft definitely makes the hawk a more efficient chopper than with a short haft.
 
shooter_250 said:
My Grandmother...one of the so-called "full-blooded" Cherokee, who broke from the band of Cherokee walking the trail of tears. Grannys' story, not mine...Granny claimed the group maintained a low-profile for a hundred or so years, she was born in the 1890's, then began to show themselves....for example....My earliest memories of Granny are from Flemming, Ga...turns out the U.S. Military leased a great deal of Fort Stewart from her...My next were when in the early 1960s she bought a great deal of downtown Savannah, Ga...and...Hilton Head Island, S.C., where I spent most summers and half of my winters.

Grannys' favorite saying was "100% Cherokee Baby"...

Whole Point of this is,,,I remember the walls of her wide hallways were covered in this sort of thing...old hawks, bags, pouches, headgear bows and spears and so on...Granny passed in the late 70s, I have no idea where these wonderful pieces ended up...
The long curved handles meant that the owner had a special medicine.....of course, the longer the handle, the longer the reach...special medicine?...

I remember playing with some of these things as a child, and now constantly kick my own butt for not keeping up with them....in the early 80s there were so many bad guys who had to be chased down and stopped, by the time I could turn my attention to Grannys' stuff, I was 40 and they were long gone....Preserve history when you find it, blink your eye and history will be history..

God Bless

Lee
Click to expand...

Hey Lee
Your Granny sounds like a great lady but it was probably her granny who got off the trail of tears as the Cherokee were moved starting in 1838 and on into the 1840s. So much family history get mixed up over the years. It's wonderful that her ancestors managed to escape as 1000s died on the walk. As for the longer handles being special medicine that could be based on reality as longer stone bowled Sacred Pipes are usually used by "Heavier" Medicine people ( Like Sitting Bull). I believe the longer handled fighting hawks (without bowls) were more related to the earlier stone head warclubs. The last one in your pics is or was likely quite whipy, they usually are when wrapped in rawhide. Thanks again for the pics.
Do you remember what Tribe the Pipebag was attributed to? Both the Cheyenne and the Siouxan Tribes used that lazy stitch beading technique but the Cheyenne were big on green beads.

Best regards

Robin
 
LMAO...Pipeman,,,,I just re-read my post and dagnabit, it does look like I said my Granny broke from the trail of tears groups..you are correct...it was probably my great, great, great?, grandmother....

Thanks for pointing out my error...on the other hand it would have been cool to have a 200 y/o Granny....I think...as long as she didn't want to nibble my neck on occasion...LOL...

I should have edited my post...again thanks for pointing out my error...

adois

God Bless

Lee
 
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Where is that at in Arkansas? We went on a vacation over Thanksgiving and one of the places we wanted to fo was closed.

Thank for posting these pictures.
 
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