Copper in Cutlery

From the Pima County Health Department:

"Types of cookware used to make food can be just as culturally significant as the meals themselves. However, over time we have learned that not all metals can be considered food-safe. Here are some metals that are not approved by the 2013 FDA Food Code and some suggested replacements.

Copper​

Copper and copper alloys such as brass may not be used in contact with a food that has a pH below 6 such as vinegar, fruit juice, or wine.

High concentrations of copper are poisonous and have caused foodborne illness. When copper and copper alloy surfaces contact acidic foods, copper may leach into the food. Swallowing large amounts of copper may cause abdominal pain, diarrhea, vomiting, and jaundice (yellow skin and whites of the eyes).

Copper pots - such as the cazo de cabre cannot be used to make carnitas or any other foods with a pH lower than 6. There are many stainless-steel versions of “cazo para carnitas” available and are the same shape as the copper counterparts. If you already have the real copper cazo de cabre, you don’t have to throw it away, you can take it home or display it in the restaurant as decoration.

Real copper mugs - used for Moscow mules. Many bars and restaurants have switched to mule mugs that are stainless steel on the inside but copper alloy on the outside. This is approved because the ginger beer, vodka and lime juice do not make contact with the real copper. If you have mule mugs that are lined with real copper, you can hang them up for decoration at the bar instead of discarding them. "



I think the more pressing issue with copper in knives is its susceptibility to oxidation. If it does come into contact with acids for an extended period of time it will pit. Definitely not the most robust material for a heavy use kitchen tool. But then again the same can be said for carbon steel so there you have it. 😊

Eric
 
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These supplements are full of coppery goodness.

The Mayo Clinic says "The body needs copper for normal growth and health. For patients who are unable to get enough copper in their regular diet or who have a need for more copper, copper supplements may be necessary."
 
Crag the Brewer said:
Never heard of this.....
The best water lines are copper.
The best confectioners bowls are copper.
It's used in food processing plants/brewers Alot.
It's added to our multi vitamins.

Not saying that it isn't true. I'm sure copper toxicity is a thing...... But I Guaranty more people die from consuming water each year.
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Yeah, there's so much copper in our lives that we are in direct contact with, yet copper toxicity is a rare occurrence.
 
Yep. Raw copper, just like the briefly fashionable nickel (after tin lining and before stainless) the ph has to be neutral or high.

The trace copper does help egg whites to whip more stable
 
navman said:
Maybe that's why he had copper toxicity...he ate too many Carnitas Tacos and drank to many Moscow Mules....
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The struggle is real.

But seriously someone deep in the defence industry who's developing prototype stuff is going to be handling and exposed to things that aren't good for you.
 
I tested a chef knife I made in my own kitchen that had good amounts of copper in the cladding for almost a year before offering them for sale. We cut a lot of limes and acidic foods at home and after all of the use testing the knife there was no noticeable oxidation or patina on the copper, no weird reactions whatsoever. I don’t think it’s a serious concern in this application.
 
didn't the old ATS-55 Spyderco briefly used have copper in the alloy?

edit: Yep.

ATS-55:

Carbon (C) 1.00 Chromium (Cr) 14.00
Cobalt (Co) 0.40 Niobium (Nb) --
Copper (Cu) 0.20 Manganese (Mn) 0.50
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.60 Nickel (Ni) --
Nitrogen (N) -- Phosphorus (P) --
Silicon (Si) 0.40 Sulphur (S) --
Tungsten (W) -- Vanadium (V) --
 
Joshua Fisher said:
I tested a chef knife I made in my own kitchen that had good amounts of copper in the cladding for almost a year before offering them for sale. We cut a lot of limes and acidic foods at home and after all of the use testing the knife there was no noticeable oxidation or patina on the copper, no weird reactions whatsoever. I don’t think it’s a serious concern in this application.
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ahhhhhh...This is what I'm looking for, some real world testing. What I'd love to do is rub an onion on some copper and have someone test it, maybe at the local university. This is good though, if there's no noticeable oxidation, I can't imagine there's much, if any, transfer into the food. Thanks you for this comment.
 
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Still alive (at least on the outside).
 
navman said:
didn't the old ATS-55 Spyderco briefly used have copper in the alloy?

edit: Yep.

ATS-55:

Carbon (C) 1.00 Chromium (Cr) 14.00
Cobalt (Co) 0.40 Niobium (Nb) --
Copper (Cu) 0.20 Manganese (Mn) 0.50
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.60 Nickel (Ni) --
Nitrogen (N) -- Phosphorus (P) --
Silicon (Si) 0.40 Sulphur (S) --
Tungsten (W) -- Vanadium (V) --
Click to expand...
It’s quite possible this was a copper maximum in the spec, though not necessarily impossible to be an addition. Of course small amounts of copper within a steel is different than straight copper.
 
This topic pops up every so often. It is usually someone saying galvanized metal will kill you or spalted wood is deadly.

Just because something is biologically toxic does not mean it is unsafe to handle or use. Toxic does not necessarily mean poisonous or deadly.
The USA alone has minted five hundred of billion copper coins in the and the population is doing fine. As noted, copper pipes are considered the best type, etc.
Copper toxicity is from long exposure to food and water contamination, or long exposure to breathing the dust in mining and manufacturing. The normal symptoms are similar to metal fume fever.
The human liver filters out copper. IIRC, peeing green is a sign of high copper exposure. People with high concentrations of copper show signs of liver disease and jaundice. There are some genetic diseases where the liver can't process copper well and the people are more sensitive to copper, but those are rare.

On the other hand, the tin-foil hat folks may have something:
Copper swords and knives have proven to be unsafe. it seems several million people have died from them. And the copper jacket on a bullet - WOW, those things can really be fatal!
 
Oh don’t get me started on how oxygen is oxidizing us with every breath slowly destroying our body, if only we could figure out something better to breathe
 
I'm surprised no one has mentioned it. 5/6 years ago or so copper bolsters were all the rage on kitchen knives. There'd been a study done that had found copper to be naturally antibacterial or some such. A Doc friend asked me to use it on some kitchen knives for his wife and so I momentarily jumped on the copper bolster bandwagon. Didn't stay there long as I didn't like working it. It gets HOT real fast and was grippy on the belts. So I made a few knives with copper bolsters and that was the end of that. Seems like that all the rage has like so many, has passed:

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I will still use copper Loveless bolts on occasion and the mosaic pins that I use most of the time have copper in em. Ain't kilt no one yet. Funny story:

Some years back it was pretty common in the cowboy world to wear a copper bracelet. Thought was, that it helped with the aches and pains that come with such a lifestyle. I had an older buddy who started riding and cowboying a lil late in life (early 70s). He'd led a pretty active life already and his bod was on the pretty used up side. Pro race car driver, played a lil semi pro football (never went to the NFL was too little), skied like a demon, MP during the Korean War in Japan, logger and the list of bumps and bruises went on. Hawkeye, as everybody called him was exposed to these copper bracelets and became a huge believer. He said he used to start every morning with a handful of Tylenol just to get going. Once he started with the copper bracelet he quit the Tylenol as he didn't need it anymore.

So one time, Hawkeye, John, (Hawkeye's son in law) and myself, we was at a horse deal somewhere and we were wandering around some of the booths of vendors there. We stopped at a booth that was selling lots of different copper bracelets. Cowboys tended to wear their bracelets mainly on the left arm, that way it was out of the way when dallying (wrapping the rope around the horn to act as a clutch/brake to whatever you have roped). The gal that was running the booth could best be described as New Age ish and I'm sure there was incense burning somewhere. Anyhoo we're looking at the bracelets and she leans over the counter and says: "you guys are wearing your bracelets on the wrong arm!" "Whadya mean?" comes the cowboy reply. She lifts both ams towards the heavens, looks up and with 3 or 4 bracelets on her right arm she says: "You have to have them on your receiving arm!" And literally went "Ahhhhhhhhhhh..." Didn't take us long to find us in another booth.
 
True.

Another fact only the New-Age kids know is that tin foil hats only work if there is 2% copper in the foil alloy. This disrupts the EMC waves (Extraterrestrial Mind Control).
To get the required electrical properties, you have to alloy your own billets from 98% Sn and 2% Cu, then hand hammer out the foil with a copper maul on a tin anvil (or is it the other way around??).
To prevent the masses from blocking their EMC rays with foil hats, the Star Chamber controls the world copper market and only allows 0.2% copper in tin foil. After they landed in Roswell in 1910 PCE (Pre Crash Era) they took over the world's tin supplies and substituted aluminum in tin foil. Tin is the most valuable element in the universe and earth is its major source. Tin atoms are beamed to a galaxy named Far-Far-Away from a transmitter in Arizona disguised as an ancient meteor crater. Ever wonder why only NAA astronauts are the only people allowed in the bottom of the crater and they have to wear space suits? (look it up if you don't believe me)
A rogue alien life form tried to warn us on our early B&W TV sets. He told us that tin foil hats would protect us. But he was stopped by The Chamber. They turned his image into silly plush toys, and no one listened to him seriously. Sadly, Gordon Shumway passed away from unspecified causes. Most free-thinkers believe he was poisoned with copper, which is deadly toxic on Melmac. His body disappeared and is reportedly kept somewhere in the Nevada desert.
The Chamber immediately reduced the copper in aluminum foil by a factor of 10.
If you doubt my information, I will point out that AJ Reynolds spelled backwards is SDLONYER JA. If ever there was proof of an alien name, it is that!
 
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