copper questions.

jdm61

jdm61

itinerant metal pounder
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
Messages
47,357
What thickness of copper sheet is best for handle spacers? I currently use .060 G10 but I was thinking that with copper, the .040 might be a bit more subtle.
How do you do spacers between different handle materials on a full tang blade? Specifically how would you join up the perpendicular spacer pieces with the copper scale liners?
 
".....Specifically how would you join up the perpendicular spacer pieces with the copper scale liners?"

In your thin pieces, .... glue.
 
Last edited:
I usually use 0.02" to 0.03" for subtly as you stated and to minimize the weight increase that goes along with using it. I use them as a "pinstripe" so they go in between either micarta or G10 liners. I use epoxy to attach them to liner and handle material. If I understand your other question correctly here's a pic of how I do spacers.

IMG_6035 by Robert Erickson, on Flickr


If you want to see the whole WIP on how I do bolsters, it's here:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bolster-wip.1506939/
 
To line up all the spacers on a full tang you can probably also epoxy all the different sections of handle material together as a block, then when it cures drill the pin holes through the block as a hole, then split it down the center to create two scales from it. With the holes pre-drilled they should line back up with each other fine. And you could probably use the flat sides from the outside of the block to mate against the tang and then proceed to contouring the handle. Unless it's just as quick/easy in your shop with your tools to flatten the insides where the block was just sawed through the middle.

I've never tried this method but it's an idea that sounds like it'd work. Perhaps it would need to be sawed in half on a metal band saw due to the copper spacers.

~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (It's been a few years since my last upload)
 
"Huh?"
Somehow, part of that post disappeared. I added it back. I was saying the only way to put the vertical spacer in something like thn G10 would be with a good epoxy.

I didn't answer size, as that seems to be a personal choice, but I would suggest somewhere around 25% of the assembled scale thickness. That would be about .01" to .015" in your handle.
 
I would be using straight copper with no G-10 for the current job.
Robert Erickson said:
I usually use 0.02" to 0.03" for subtly as you stated and to minimize the weight increase that goes along with using it. I use them as a "pinstripe" so they go in between either micarta or G10 liners. I use epoxy to attach them to liner and handle material. If I understand your other question correctly here's a pic of how I do spacers.

IMG_6035 by Robert Erickson, on Flickr


If you want to see the whole WIP on how I do bolsters, it's here:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bolster-wip.1506939/
Click to expand...
 
So copper spacer between bolster and scales and copper liner?

If so, I glue the bolster, copper spacer and scales together on a flat surface with parchment paper underneath. Once that cures I flatten the back on my grinder and then glue the assembly to the copper liner. If I do it all at once it’s hard to get the spacer flush with the liner. Hope this helps.
 
I do it the way coldsteelburns suggested. I have never done it with copper, however, and I vaguely recall an article I read years ago about how poorly epoxy bonded to copper when boat building. I suggest someone call Gougeon Bros. and ask that question of the technical dept. and let us all know.
 
I use tons of copper for both art and pretty much every knife I’ve made. Any cutting after glue up I typicllay use my jewelers saw since friction builds heat fast in copper which will ruin the epoxy bond. I use .050” copper for liners mostly.
 
jdm61 said:
I would be using straight copper with no G-10 for the current job.
Click to expand...
Either way would probably work, I use wax paper underneath as was suggested. I'll have to try the way coldsteelburns suggests. That seems like a great option when blocks are available.
I have used epoxy and CA glue for copper but would love to hear if someone has had good success with another adhesive. I think no matter what is used heat is a concern.
 
Thanks, guys,. Paul, for this project I only have scales of one of the woods. so no block and no satisfactory way to split one.
coldsteelburns said:
To line up all the spacers on a full tang you can probably also epoxy all the different sections of handle material together as a block, then when it cures drill the pin holes through the block as a hole, then split it down the center to create two scales from it. With the holes pre-drilled they should line back up with each other fine. And you could probably use the flat sides from the outside of the block to mate against the tang and then proceed to contouring the handle. Unless it's just as quick/easy in your shop with your tools to flatten the insides where the block was just sawed through the middle.

I've never tried this method but it's an idea that sounds like it'd work. Perhaps it would need to be sawed in half on a metal band saw due to the copper spacers.

~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (It's been a few years since my last upload)
Click to expand...

Matt R said:
So copper spacer between bolster and scales and copper liner?

If so, I glue the bolster, copper spacer and scales together on a flat surface with parchment paper underneath. Once that cures I flatten the back on my grinder and then glue the assembly to the copper liner. If I do it all at once it’s hard to get the spacer flush with the liner. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
.
 
Brian Ayres said:
I use tons of copper for both art and pretty much every knife I’ve made. Any cutting after glue up I typicllay use my jewelers saw since friction builds heat fast in copper which will ruin the epoxy bond. I use .050” copper for liners mostly.
Click to expand...


Now this has me curious as to what it's like shaping copper spacers on full tang handles since I never have. Hearing that it loosens up pretty easily, it seems like it would heat it up quite a bit as well on the grinder. On a hidden tang it seems like it wouldn't be much of a problem since the copper would be between two other pieces of handle material that will remain secured to the epoxy and it's also slotted onto the tang with no way to slide off any side. But if it becomes too hot on as a spacer on a full tang is seems like it might loosen up and get knocked out of its slot between the other material.

Maybe it's not too much of a problem but it just got me thinking. I wonder if something like a 1/16" hidden pin that goes through the copper and a quarter inch or so into each adjacent handle material would help ensure it wouldn't come loose. As long as the handle isn't gonna be really slim and there's about an 1/8" of material all the way around the pin I don't see it being a problem. Just use the copper spacer itself as a template to drill into the other two pieces. I may just be over thinking it , but isn't that we're good at here? ;)




~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (It's been a few years since my last upload)
 
Paul, this blade is gong to have all hidden pins, so i was thinking about those 1/16 "registration" pins too.
coldsteelburns said:
Now this has me curious as to what it's like shaping copper spacers on full tang handles since I never have. Hearing that it loosens up pretty easily, it seems like it would heat it up quite a bit as well on the grinder. On a hidden tang it seems like it wouldn't be much of a problem since the copper would be between two other pieces of handle material that will remain secured to the epoxy and it's also slotted onto the tang with no way to slide off any side. But if it becomes too hot on as a spacer on a full tang is seems like it might loosen up and get knocked out of its slot between the other material.

Maybe it's not too much of a problem but it just got me thinking. I wonder if something like a 1/16" hidden pin that goes through the copper and a quarter inch or so into each adjacent handle material would help ensure it wouldn't come loose. As long as the handle isn't gonna be really slim and there's about an 1/8" of material all the way around the pin I don't see it being a problem. Just use the copper spacer itself as a template to drill into the other two pieces. I may just be over thinking it , but isn't that we're good at here? ;)




~Paul
My Youtube Channel
... (It's been a few years since my last upload)
Click to expand...
 
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