Coroner on Belgrade Assassination

[johnniet]

Is there any kind of body armor that would have protected against this? What kind of western gun corresponds to an M-69? (The bullet was 7.9 mm which is about .311 in.)
Is it really accurate to 500 meters?

One bullet killed Serbian PM
14/03/2003 21:41 - (SA)

Belgrade - Slain Serbian prime minister Zoran Djindjic was felled by a single bullet, which hit him in the right side of the chest and exited through his stomach, coroners in charge of autopsy were quoted on Friday as saying.

Djindjic was "killed by a bullet shot from a telescopic rifle" on Wednesday, Glas Javnosti newspaper said.

The daily, citing informed sources, said the bullet hit the heart directly, causing significant internal haemorrhaging, before exiting.

It may have been a special bullet, it said, adding: "Even if he had worn a bullet-proof vest, Mr Djindjic would have had no chance of survival."

The 50-year-old prime minister, a pro-Western reformist who had won his share of enemies for handing over former Serbian strongman Slobodan Milosevic to the UN war crimes tribunal, was shot in the car park of Serbian government offices and died later in the hospital.

Police said he had been shot by a sniper from the second floor of a nearby building.

According to the daily Vecernje Novosti, the bullet which killed him was a 7.9mm fired from a locally made Zastava M-69 sniper's rifle.

It will be difficult to track down the killers, the paper said, since no records of M-69 ownership have been kept and many of the outdated arms were stolen during the Balkans wars of the 1990s from old army stockpiles.

The gun, which has been out of production for over 20 years, has the advantage of being "very sure, very precise from a distance of 400 to 500 metres", it added.
[more info on investigation left out]

URL http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,6119,2-10-1462_1333408,00.html

 

[Cougar Allen]

There are vests that can stop most rifle rounds, but nobody wants to wear them. It's hard enough to get people to wear vests that are only heavy enough to stop most pistol rounds.

I'm not familiar with the rifle used in the assassination, but even stopping bullets from an AR-15 (far from the most powerful rifle) requires a vest so stiff and heavy that few are willing to wear it even in combat, let alone every time they appear in public.

 

[Cougar Allen]

P.S. Again, I'm not familiar with that rifle, but accuracy to 500 meters is not a big deal. Snipers often work at greater ranges than that; you have to get well beyond 1000 meters before you have anything to brag about.

 

[Larry S.]

The late Carlos Hathcock was credited with a kill at an estimated range of 2500 yds. The weapon was a tripod-mounted .50 cal M1 Browning Machinegun I believe........that's approx. 1 1/3 MILES!!!!!

Larry S.

 

[johnniet]

Impressive.

With sniper rifles at long range, do you have to hit someone in a vital spot (Djindjic's heart was hit) or it is enough to hit the torso?

 

[Cougar Allen]

The target would be unlikely to survive a random torso hit with a .50 BMG. Of course bullet placement counts if you can do it, but at 2,500 yards you're doing good to hit him at all.

To put this in perspective, in World War I everybody used bolt-action rifles of approximately 30 caliber (7.62mm) and ordinary soldiers shooting in the prone position and using iron sights were expected to be able to hit a man in the open with every shot at 1,000 yards -- on a calm day; that isn't possible if there's wind. Now the ordinary soldier uses a select-fire weapon that isn't capable of that kind of range, and rifles are seldom used when the enemy is more than a couple of hundred yards away.

Contrary to popular belief most sniping is not done at long range, but long-range snipers have better rifles and higher velocity cartridges than were used in WWI, and often use telescopic sights (seldom used in WWI) so they can extend their range beyond 1,000 yards. A good scope helps a lot, and so does a high-velocity cartridge with a flatter trajectory. Snipers usually work in pairs, with one using binoculars to spot for the other one; they switch off frequently to minimize fatigue.

Target shooting at 1,000 yards is still a popular sport in the US.

 

[Benjamin]

7.92mm = 8mm Mauser

Slightly more ass than a .30-'06

 

[maximus otter]

The Yugo sniper rifle since the early 80's has been the M76. It's essentially a Dragunov chambered in 7.9mm, though export variants were also chambered in 7.62 x 54 Russian rimmed. It was fitted with a 4x scope.

Accuracy, all things considered? I'd guess at 3MOA.

Yes, there are vests with plates that will stop 7.9mm.

maximus otter

 

[DEA]

Originally posted by maximus otter
Yes, there are vests with plates that will stop 7.9mm.

not comfortable though
http://www.ucalgary.ca/~kwheaton/Bodyarmour.htm

 

[Sid Post]

I may be mistaken but, thought the M-69 was a bolt action rifle similar to the traditional Mauser bolt action known so well all over the world.

The caliber itself? Without further specifics, I can't absolutely identify it but, that really is not relevant is it? Both western nations and the former communist nations of the "Evil Empire" use similar rifle cartridges in the 30-06, 8mm Mauser and, 7.62 x 54R class. All perform similarly in this context.

Outside of this specific news report, you will find Sniper Rifle calibers from 223Remington to cartridges larger then the 50 BMG. If you know your range well enough to deal with trajectory, lethal hits are possible with almost any quality rifle and ammunition at almost any range if you are willing to develope the skill to shoot that far. Almost anyone with limited training could do the job at 100 yards. Farther out and the skill needed increases. Any sports hunter learns these lessons early.

The FSCA (Fifty Caliber Shooters Association) 1000 yard matches typically have shooters with groups that are well under 1 MOA. Right now, the record is under 4 inches at 1000 yards. I have witnessed a military shooter with a stock (non-accurized or specialized) AR-15 semi-auto shoot a 3/4 inch group free hand (standing unsupported) at 300 yards. I would not say this is a typical performance to be expected from a soldier fresh out of boot camp but, it is certainly possible.

With regards to assination, as in this case, dead is dead. When you inflict a lethal wound the objective is accomplished. Again, talk to any hunter. Some kills are cleaner and quicker then others but, the end result is all the same.

Even if the target was wearing body armor capable of taking this sort of rifle round, I doubt he was wearing an RBR helmet or other device that would protect his head. Urban sniper shots are relatively close so, a head shot is not unreasonable. Then you always have the major arteries in the legs. This is an assination after all, not a police sniper engagement with a drugged up kid holding a hostage.

There is a lot of hype, fascination and, out right false information propagated about snipers in general. A brief news article like that one hardly deals with all the relevant details.

 

[Cougar Allen]

Cartridges larger then the 50 BMG??? That's news to me -- tell us more!

 

[Sid Post]

The Iver Johnson AMAC 5100 was produced in the Soviet 14.5mm caliber for export during the Soviet occupation of Afganistan. Because rifles over .50 caliber are classified under the National Firearms Act, normally they are only seen overseas or in the military.

You also run into problems with recoil. Even with good muzzle brakes, recoil with rifles generating thousands of pounds of energy on target is enormous (to the point of being hazardous to the shooter in some cases). You also are going from a "traditional" anti-personnel sniper rifle role to an anti-material role with these sorts of huge rounds. The Austrians have done a lot of work with larger caliber "anti-material" and anti-helicopter type rifles using a variety of ammunition larger then 50BMG. None of these ever went beyond testing to my knowledge.

I believe the 408 Cheyene Tactical is going to be the new era large caliber and extreme range sniper rifle. It has a better trajectory and more then enough power for the role. Check it out at http://www.edmarms.com/products/m408.htm and read the test report at http://www.edmarms.com/reviews2.htm .